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But, Kobe can't save himself, must less the Lakers, Al.
Pau completed Kobe. He put him back together from a shattered state and lit the path that had gone dark on Bryant.
There's always room for debate Man from Acme. I just act a like to people who start up with comments, obviously I'm not talking about you, Sir.Allanon,
See your points buddy and you make a good case but I also see Milkshakes points. I am getting in on the tail end of this topic so please bear with me.
Marc Gasol almost certainly could have been a great piece just as his brother but shouldn't something be said about "intangibles" that some people have and others don't? Marc could have been a great pick-up but would he have been a Phil "guy"?. Pau is the ultimate teammate and does what is asked of him which fits perfectly with Phils system. Not saying that Marc doesn't have that but maybe there is more to acquiring a player besides just his stats. How many times have we seen guys blossom on some teams while not producing crud on another?
I still see your points though. Just that I am in the camp that thinks the Laker FO saw things in Pau which fit perfectly well with Phils system "now". They need to win "now" and not wait for Marc to morph into what they need.
Just my opnions.
I think several things:
1) The Lakers didn't need a 20pt player like Pau to win last year, a tough defender like Marc putting up 12/10 would have been enough.
2) In addition, they would have still had about $13 million in trade bait they could have used to pick up another player.
3) For a Lakerfan to think the Lakers wouldn't be contenders without Pau is just crazy in my mind
So with Marc Gasol + $13 million trade, I think they would have been just fine last year and for even more years to come because Marc's 24. No need for Pau to come and save the Lakers, we already have Kobe for that.
But, Kobe can't save himself, must less the Lakers, Al.
Pau completed Kobe. He put him back together from a shattered state and lit the path that had gone dark on Bryant.
You ain't gettin' me to argue with you Cully, I've seen how that goes...haiku and
That's fine.You ain't gettin' me to argue with you Cully, I've seen how that goes...haiku and
\
& I don't argue very well, I'll admit. You guys do a grand job of it here and I'm very impressed.
Valid points.There's always room for debate Man from Acme. I just act a like to people who start up with comments, obviously I'm not talking about you, Sir.
I think several things:
1) The Lakers didn't need a 20pt player like Pau to win last year, a tough defender like Marc putting up 12/10 would have been enough.
2) In addition, they would have still had about $13 million in trade bait they could have used to pick up another player.
3) For a Lakerfan to think the Lakers wouldn't be contenders without Pau is just crazy in my mind
So with Marc Gasol + $13 million trade, I think they would have been just fine last year and for even more years to come because Marc's 24. No need for Pau to come and save the Lakers, we already have Kobe for that.
Yet another valid point.
No one man is bigger than any team (at least that's the way I was trained when I played sports).
As great as the Kobster is, I think Pau fit perfectly......and yet a part of me tells me that L.A. would have done just as well with Marc.
This is getting me dizzy....
Marc and Pau are completely different players. Since the Lakers have Bynum having Pau is a lot better since Bynum and Marc wouldn't be able to co-exist on the same court.
Allanon isn't being completely ridiculous though when he says Marc can be as good as Pau. He's still young. That trade obviously helped LA, and it's helped Memphis too. They traded an unmotivated player the fans hated, and got back a very serviceable center, two first round picks, and a player they traded to get their own 2010 pick back, which in all likelihood i a top 5 in a loaded draft.
I still wish we could've held onto Marc, gotten Pau and shipped Walton with Brown and brought back Miller. I love Miller.
what if scenarios and justification like these are hard because lets say for example...There's always room for debate Man from Acme. I just act a like to people who start up with comments, obviously I'm not talking about you, Sir.
I think several things:
1) The Lakers didn't need a 20pt player like Pau to win last year, a tough defender like Marc putting up 12/10 would have been enough.
2) In addition, they would have still had about $13 million in trade bait they could have used to pick up another player.
3) For a Lakerfan to think the Lakers wouldn't be contenders without Pau is just crazy in my mind
So with Marc Gasol + $13 million trade, I think they would have been just fine last year and for even more years to come because Marc's 24. No need for Pau to come and save the Lakers, we already have Kobe for that.
A+ B = 2
if we replace A with something close to A then we add A^x to denote the 13 million in trade bait you were mentioning
the equation would be
((something close to A) + A^x) + B = +/- 2 in the sense that it can be less than 2 or more than 2, but not exactly 2.
so in conclusion, sure marc gasol MIGHT BE better than pao or close to him, but he isn't, sure that 13 million trade bait might have gotten someone useful, but whose to say that person would have fit the system, learned the system, hard to say.
But what you said is a good argument in proving that pao gasol or no pao gasol, lakers would have won, but it flawed in the sense that it only works in the minds of laker fans.
Not really, no. Pau at 24 was leading a team full of roleplayers to the playoffs. Marc is like the 4th option on the Grizzlies and the team is/was lottery fodder last year.
Pau is longer and has much better fundamental basketball skills. Footwork, hands, passing, IQ, post moves - advantage Pau, easy.
^^ not to mention much hairier(sp?)
Yes. Just superb.
Of course these are What If situations, anything could have happened. The only thing we do know:
1) Marc Gasol just scored 21 points and picked up 15 boards....these numbers are Top 3 Center numbers
2) Marc averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds as a rookie, he was no scrub as a rookie
3) Marc makes $3 million
4) The Lakers would have had $13 million to spend still while keeping Marc Gasol
Conclusion: Kobe/Lamar/Artest/Bynum/Marc Gasol/+13 million player would have been favorites to win it again. I think even non Laker fans can appreciate how good of a lineup that is.
He was 4th option last year because he was a rookie, he's moving up to 2nd this year. You could tell the Grizz are making them a focal point n the game yesterday.
Alot of people haven't watch Marc play. He's a friggin' clone of Pau. He's behind on footwork but that's about it. He makes up for his lack of footwork with his much tougher playing at ude. You'll never hear about Marc being "soft".Pau is longer and has much better fundamental basketball skills. Footwork, hands, passing, IQ, post moves - advantage Pau, easy.
I'm telling you guys, you'll be wondering which Gasol is better once you've watched Marc play a few times this year. 21pts, 15 boards, 3 blocks wasn't luck or an abberation.
Guys, what's done cannot be undone. I think all parties here bring valisdarguments to the table, but the fact remains that we have Pau instead of Marc and the results immediately paid dividends. Marc has a bright young future but Pau is in his prime and had previous playoff experience (albeit an 0-12 record, lol). Acme brought up a great point about "intangibles"--Pau fits the triangle perfectly and his interior passing is second to none. Pau IS a great player, Marc WILL be too someday.
0.02
Hard to say, sure on paper that's looks good, but the lakers had karl malone, gary payton and blah blah, and on paper looked unstoppable. It's hard to base on stats what could've been.
Shaq has good numbers, but we all know clevelands gonna suck this year, see what I mean? numbers don't mean anything, anything can happen...
You'll never see sportswriter say, Put Lebron, Kobe, Dwade, PRime Shaq, Duncan in one team and we guarantee our lives and our family's lives that they'll win a ship 4 in a row. Cuz anything can happen, there are no guarantees in sports.
Karl Malone was 40 years old when he joined the Lakers. Gary Payton was something like 36. Them was the AARP Lakers. If it were the young versions, that lineup could have gone 80-2.
Why do you keep picking on the old fellas? Shaq's 38. Find me a lineup in their prime to make your example.Shaq has good numbers, but we all know clevelands gonna suck this year, see what I mean? numbers don't mean anything, anything can happen...
Nobody's guaranteeing anything. They would be the favorites, as I said.You'll never see sportswriter say, Put Lebron, Kobe, Dwade, PRime Shaq, Duncan in one team and we guarantee our lives and our family's lives that they'll win a ship 4 in a row. Cuz anything can happen, there are no guarantees in sports.
Umm...Pau took a team of scrubs to the playoffs and 50 win seasons 2 years in a row if I'm not mistaken???? His best player at the time was whooo... Mike Miller?!?!?!?
Do you honestly think Marc Gasol can do this??? AND THIS IS NOT A DISS TO MARC GASOL...
I'm admitting he is a solid player. But Pau wit hthe Grizzlies WAS there FRANCHISE player. He had NO HELP. AT ALL. ZERO. Do you think Marc can achieve this?
For example...put Pau on this Grizzlies team.
Conley
Mayo
Gay
Pau
I bet you this year that team will at least FIGHT and be right there for an 8th seed.
Agreed?
Hahahaha. No. Marc Gasol will never be the 2nd option on a team with three shoot first guards like Iverson, Mayo and Gay. Not to mention Randolph
One game. One game where Memphis was blown out. Marc G. won't average 11 free throws or 12 defensive boards a game. I promise.
Last edited by 21_Blessings; 10-29-2009 at 05:58 PM.
Look at this Lakerfan idiot, his avatar shows a picture of Kobe holding Finals MVP and at the same time says Kobe couldn't have done it without Pau.
Get rid of that picture Pau lover.
HAHAHA lets go back here
You said....
My point to you other fellows is, the Lakers could have had Marc Gasol (an almost double double man in his rookie season) + another good player for the price of Pau. I think that would have been more than enough to have gotten them a ring last year considering most of the good teams were injured.
And let's examine your example.
Marc Gasol + Richard Jefferson
RJ was just traded this offseason. On Feb 1 2008, how in the do you know you could have traded for Richard Jefferson? Off the top of my head...the Nets weren't even in firesale mode. The ONLY reason they traded Kidd was because they got freakin Devin Harris...so your RJ scenario is MOOT and NOT VALID.
Marc Gasol + Vince Carter
Also read above. How do you know you could have gotten VC? Nets were not in firesale mode at the time. Its ALL speculation on your part. And VC is a LOSER...it is pretty much known Kobe has NO respect for VC...that guy is lazy and selfish.
And for the sake of your argument...let's say the Lakers got 1 of these players. Both guys are great scorers. Both guys really don't play a lick of D. Who else is a great wing scorer who doesn't play much D? Want a name....CARON BUTLER. What did the Lakers did with Caron Butler? They sure didn't march to the finals I will tell you that.
And Marc Gasol in 2008...
Last year...immediately after Bynum went down..the Lakers went 6-0 on a roadtrip and beat CLE and BOS back to back. Do you think WITHOUT Pau Gasol in that lineup this would be possible? Honestly...do you? When Bynum went down in 08...do you really think MG could have stepped in and helped the Lakers? Even advance past the first round?
Does anyone here think a lineup of:
Fish
Sasha
Kobe
LO
Marc Gasol
is going to beat:
The Nuggets
The Jazz
The Spurs
in the 08 playoffs? Because that was our crunchtime lineup in 08 replacing Pau with Marc....Nuggets probably...but no chance against the other 2....
AND THATS NOT A ING SLIGHT TO KOBE
And they would have been better setup for the long run due to Marc's much lower price tag, high skill level and young age.I'm happy that the Lakers got Pau, it could have been alot worse. And it did net a ring. I'm saying it could have been even better.
This is where is laughable. The Lakers ARE the favorites to win the next 4 or 5 les. BARRING MAJOR INJURY these guys are going to experience one of the BEST dynasties in NBA HISTORY. HOW IN THE FLYING DOES IT GET BETTER THAN THAT???
And your calling ME a homer? Do you see the ing joke in that??? YOu really think the Lakers could be better than right now??? R u ing kidding me???? I'M BEING A HOMER????????
Saying I said Kobe can't do it without Pau?!?! What in the are you talking about??? KOBE IS THE IGN BEST PLAYER TO EVER ING PLAY THE GAME....BUT GOD DAMN HE NEEDS HELP TO. just because i realize how IMPORTANT Pau is and how ign easy he makes the game for Kobe....god damn doesnt mean I don't respect Kobe. HE WILL BE THE FIRST ONE TO TELL YOUR ASS HOW GOOD PAU IS AND HOW EASY HE MAKES LIVE FOR THE ING LAKESHOW.
SO GO TAKE A ING HIKE YOU IGN IDIOT
Calm down man. It's just the internet.
The nets have gotten rid of Jason Kidd, Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson. That is a fact, the rest is your opinion.
They didn't have Marc Gasol.And for the sake of your argument...let's say the Lakers got 1 of these players. Both guys are great scorers. Both guys really don't play a lick of D. Who else is a great wing scorer who doesn't play much D? Want a name....CARON BUTLER. What did the Lakers did with Caron Butler? They sure didn't march to the finals I will tell you that.
In 08, the Lakers lost, and Pau/Lamar were criticized for not helping Kobe. It doesn't matter what they did in 08.Last year...immediately after Bynum went down..the Lakers went 6-0 on a roadtrip and beat CLE and BOS back to back. Do you think WITHOUT Pau Gasol in that lineup this would be possible? Honestly...do you? When Bynum went down in 08...do you really think MG could have stepped in and helped the Lakers? Even advance past the first round?
In 09, yes, Marc Gasol would have been fine. Let's not forget the only hard series the Lakers had in 09 was versus the Rockets. Every other series was pretty much, let's get this over with and move on.
Does anyone here think a lineup of:
Fish
Sasha
Kobe
LO
Marc Gasol
is going to beat:
The Nuggets
The Jazz
The Spurs
in the 08 playoffs? Because that was our crunchtime lineup in 08 replacing Pau with Marc....Nuggets probably...but no chance against the other 2....
AND THATS NOT A ING SLIGHT TO KOBE[/quote]
Wow, those are real powerhouses. Yes, Marc Gasol + a $13 million player would have been plenty.
I'll just quote the important part of your message and respond to it.HOW IN THE FLYING DOES IT GET BETTER THAN THAT???
SO GO TAKE A ING HIKE YOU IGN IDIOT
You Pau lovers make me sick, Kobe's the MVP, not Pau.
Suck it Pau lover, Kobe doesn't need Shaq, he sure as didn't need Pau. Give him a 12/10 Big man with Lamar/Ariza/Fish and he's good to go.
Win what again? Without Pau the lakers wouldn't have won it all.
You're saying Kobe needs Pau to win a Ring?
You're saying this lineup can't win it all?
Kobe
Lamar
Marc Gasol
Bynum
Artest
Fish
+ $13 million player
+ Bench mob
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