Tone; And The Ramifications.

[Chieflion]

It's really simple. Our offensive scheme does not lend to Offensive rebounds.

The Spurs space the floor. That alone doesn't bode well for garnishing rebounds off of missed shots.

It's not as much of lack of talent or who's playing at the time to do so than it is a lack of personnel in the right position to do so.

When the 3's are falling instead of failing and the penetration is producing instead of missing...the team doesn't have to worry about offensive rebounds. But if these two aspects about our offensive scheme is'nt working...don't expect high numbers in the offensive rebound department.

Starting McDyess or Blair or Ratliff or Mahinmi over Bonner isn't going to change or make a difference in that category. Speed somewhat might if you want to wear out your post players in 10 minutes of action.

What I would suggest or implement is a different offensive strategy in B2B situations that would allow for more involvement of our bigs in scoring possibilities from the post which also would allow the team better opportunity for offensive rebounds. A team of Duncan, Blair and Jefferson along with said different offensive scheme in those situations just might be what the doctor ordered to combat the physical demands of playing B2B's.

No one was even talking about offensive boards. The Spurs gave up 15 offensive rebounds to the Bulls, which results in 15 more posessions, not to mention the extra turnovers.

[ceperez]

At this point, I'd rather see Ian starting ahead of Bonner. You know what you have with Bonner, and it isn't great. Test the unknowns while the season is young.

Agree here, it's damn early. Experiment with what you got.

But I took a second look at the box score, Bonner was +11.

[ceperez]

Funny how we have a spectacular defensive half (holding the Bulls to 11-41, 27%, on non-second chance points) and people start thinking we didn't "set the tone" defensively. You could argue that getting defensive rebounds is part of an overall defensive scheme. Laying the blame on Bonner is pretty hard with that angle too though, considering we were the #1 defensive rebounding team last year with him starting. Our failure to grab defensive boards was a failure of our effort, not a failure of our talent.

Its amazing to me how posters here interpret games completely out of the context of what actually happened on the floor.

Agree. Defense was pretty good in the 2nd half. Problem was RJ, Parker and Manu not being able to score. They just didn't have the legs for it.

Finley always seems a second too slow when contesting a jump shot. On the other hand, who do we have to replace Finley?

Wish we had Bowen back instead of this undersized Bogans.

[spurspokesman]

The bulls were just way more athletic than us and constantly outhustled us on many cylinders. Combine that with there shots dropping and that can sink a lot of teams in this league. Including our spurs. But that type of play wont work always. Good teams like san antonio adapt and find a way. we will get back on our rocker.

[Bruno]

One name....Jeff Foster.

Trading Finley + Bonner for a defensive minded big like Foster would solve Spurs defensive troubles.

No only will be the interior defense improve but also the perimeter defense because a part of Finley's minutes will be give to a significantly better defender (Bogans or Hairston).

Spurs will lost some shooting but I think that having a better defense is much more important.

[Chomag]

Trading Finley + Bonner for a defensive minded big like Foster would solve Spurs defensive troubles.

No only will be the interior defense improve but also the perimeter defense because a part of Finley's minutes will be give to a significantly better defender (Bogans or Hairston).

Spurs will lost some shooting but I think that having a better defense is much more important.

I hate to say it but the farther we can put Finely away from Pop the better it would be for the both of them.

[ElNono]

A night like tonight only reminds you of the trouble young athletic teams have given the Spurs over recent years. But you could also dismiss it considering those young and athletic teams aren't the one's usually in the playoff picture for the Spurs to contend with.

But you can't. Denver and Portland come to mind.
We need a solution to this, not simply expect to lose those games.

[kobyz]

Trading Finley + Bonner for a defensive minded big like Foster would solve Spurs defensive troubles.

No only will be the interior defense improve but also the perimeter defense because a part of Finley's minutes will be give to a significantly better defender (Bogans or Hairston).

Spurs will lost some shooting but I think that having a better defense is much more important.

we don't need Foster! we have trouble against athletic teams, Foster will not help us defensively cause he is not an improvment over guys we already have like duncan, McDyess, Ratliff, he doesn't give anything defensively that they don't.
we need to be more athletic, we need to put Ian Mahinmi in the line up.

[Agloco]

we don't need Foster! we have trouble against athletic teams, Foster will not help us defensively cause he is not an improvment over guys we already have like duncan, McDyess, Ratliff, he doesn't give anything defensively that they don't.
we need to be more athletic, we need to put Ian Mahinmi in the line up.

We need to balance athleticism with youth. Ian would foul out in less than 10 minutes consistently while giving us little in return.

[Flux451]

Folks, welcome to preseason.

[Agloco]

Agree here, it's damn early. Experiment with what you got.

But I took a second look at the box score, Bonner was +11.

+/- is the worst stat ever IMO. If Bonner was the only person out there at any given time, it would be a much better indicator of his value. The fact that the stat also depends on what 9 other players are doing makes it a marginally useful stat, if useful at all.

[NRHector]

Remember...."it doesn't matter who starts."

you are right it doesn't matter who starts but who ever does they better start aggressive and don't get in to a hole that is going to be hard to get out of

[Mel_13]

we don't need Foster! we have trouble against athletic teams, Foster will not help us defensively cause he is not an improvment over guys we already have like duncan, McDyess, Ratliff, he doesn't give anything defensively that they don't.
we need to be more athletic, we need to put Ian Mahinmi in the line up.

Astonishing.

Truly astonishing.

[Chomag]

Folks, welcome to preseason.

[wildbill2u]

Four observations:

1. We got beat when they went small. But we didn't because Manu and Tony didn't play well. Among others

2. We live and die by the 3. When you go 4-21 (19%) we will lose.

3. Even when they went small we got beat on rebounds. Lots of them were long offensive rebounds--the rebounding margin of difference by the way-- that just wound up in their hands or they hustled for.

4. It's a long season. happens.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's difficult to analyze exactly where our defensive problems are coming from, since it's only been 2 games..

Duncan has been great defensively these first 2 games IMO, and he isn't even nearly in basketball shape..so I have no doubt that he can still be a great anchor..we're gonna be waiting on McDyess to get in shape before we see a difference-maker defensively in the front-court, and who knows, 'Dice might not even be that guy..

Bonner hasn't been bad defensively these first 2 games..the problem is that he's never a positive defensively IMO, he's always neutral..if he isn't spreading the floor, he has no reason to be on the floor..

Ratliff should have gotten some minutes yesterday IMO..his forte is defense, at least give him a shot in a game where we desperately needed a spark of some kind..this part of the season should be to look for who can contribute before building the chemistry IMO..

Finley was clearly too slow on rotations..he can't keep up anymore..the same thing happened in the NO game, but he was making his shots at a good level, so everybody ignored it..we are never going to be a great defensive team with a 35+ year old offensive specialist starting..we no longer have the support to hide his weaknesses..

I just really hope Hairston gets a good chance to prove himself..he brings a different element to our bench, and we desperately need spark guys like him, especially somebody that can play defense like he does..he had a good NBA stint last year for a 2nd round rookie, so it's not like he's totally new here..he knows the system..

The positive is that we'll have the assets to pull off a trade if we need one..

[Chomag]

It's difficult to analyze exactly where our defensive problems are coming from, since it's only been 2 games..

Duncan has been great defensively these first 2 games IMO, and he isn't even nearly in basketball shape..so I have no doubt that he can still be a great anchor..we're gonna be waiting on McDyess to get in shape before we see a difference-maker defensively in the front-court, and who knows, 'Dice might not even be that guy..

Bonner hasn't been bad defensively these first 2 games..the problem is that he's never a positive defensively IMO, he's always neutral..if he isn't spreading the floor, he has no reason to be on the floor..

Ratliff should have gotten some minutes yesterday IMO..his forte is defense, at least give him a shot in a game where we desperately needed a spark of some kind..this part of the season should be to look for who can contribute before building the chemistry IMO..

Finley was clearly too slow on rotations..he can't keep up anymore..the same thing happened in the NO game, but he was making his shots at a good level, so everybody ignored it..we are never going to be a great defensive team with a 35+ year old offensive specialist starting..we no longer have the support to hide his weaknesses..

I just really hope Hairston gets a good chance to prove himself..he brings a different element to our bench, and we desperately need spark guys like him, especially somebody that can play defense like he does..he had a good NBA stint last year for a 2nd round rookie, so it's not like he's totally new here..he knows the system..

The positive is that we'll have the assets to pull off a trade if we need one..

Sadly I think no matter what Finely does or how bad he plays, Hairston will not even be able to sniff the court as long as Pop has Finely in his arsenal.

[MaNu4Tres]

It's difficult to analyze exactly where our defensive problems are coming from, since it's only been 2 games..

Duncan has been great defensively these first 2 games IMO, and he isn't even nearly in basketball shape..so I have no doubt that he can still be a great anchor..we're gonna be waiting on McDyess to get in shape before we see a difference-maker defensively in the front-court, and who knows, 'Dice might not even be that guy..

Bonner hasn't been bad defensively these first 2 games..the problem is that he's never a positive defensively IMO, he's always neutral..if he isn't spreading the floor, he has no reason to be on the floor..

Ratliff should have gotten some minutes yesterday IMO..his forte is defense, at least give him a shot in a game where we desperately needed a spark of some kind..this part of the season should be to look for who can contribute before building the chemistry IMO..

Finley was clearly too slow on rotations..he can't keep up anymore..the same thing happened in the NO game, but he was making his shots at a good level, so everybody ignored it..we are never going to be a great defensive team with a 35+ year old offensive specialist starting..we no longer have the support to hide his weaknesses..

I just really hope Hairston gets a good chance to prove himself..he brings a different element to our bench, and we desperately need spark guys like him, especially somebody that can play defense like he does..he had a good NBA stint last year for a 2nd round rookie, so it's not like he's totally new here..he knows the system..

The positive is that we'll have the assets to pull off a trade if we need one..

The only way Hairston will have a real opportunity is if Mason or Finley get traded away with Bonner for a big man.

[EricB]

You give up 89 points.

Again, how is that a "defensive problem"

If you average giving up 89 points a night your gonna be fine.


Missed shots and long rebounds were the problem.

One is fixed by hustle. The other is fixed by just shooting better.

[spurspokesman]

You give up 89 points.

Again, how is that a "defensive problem"

If you average giving up 89 points a night your gonna be fine.


Missed shots and long rebounds were the problem.

One is fixed by hustle. The other is fixed by just shooting better.

Agree eric but they just were more athletic than us and they gave more hustle on defense.

[kobyz]

We need to balance athleticism with youth. Ian would foul out in less than 10 minutes consistently while giving us little in return.

like you said we need athleticism and youth and that Mahinmi will bring, Mahinmi is also has skills and i think playing with the starters will emphasize his advantages and hide his weakness, playing with the starters will take away pressure off of him.

[HarlemHeat37]

the Bulls shot around 48% in the 2nd half and had their way..that IS a defensive problem..we had the same problem in the 2nd half of the Hornets game as well..

Sadly, I have to agree with Chomag and Manu4Tres..we can only hope..

[z0sa]

Rebounding was the problem. If we rebound, we win by double digits. We got outworked, not out-talented.

[Chomag]

You give up 89 points.

Again, how is that a "defensive problem"

If you average giving up 89 points a night your gonna be fine.


Missed shots and long rebounds were the problem.

One is fixed by hustle. The other is fixed by just shooting better.

NO defencive problem? Did you even watch last nights game? If so I hope you don't honestly think there was no defencive problem. I have more faith in you then that bro.

[Bruno]

I'm not in the thread starter head but I don't think his reaction is only based on the Bulls game. At least, mine isn't.

Most of Spurs players have been in the league for years and you know how they will play. When you look at the 10 players in Spurs' rotation, Spurs won't be a top3 defensive team in the league.