Liz Cheney Says

[George Gervin's Afro]

What happens after ten years? When has a bill from congress not costed more than planned?

I don't know, do you?

[Duff McCartney]

Yeah. Hitler was a self-loathing Jew. Go figure.

Wrong. Hitler was not a self-loathing Jew. He wasn't even Jewish. At all. Read up on history man...that was a story people believed decades ago and there are no historical records of him being in any way Jewish or having Jewish blood.

[Shastafarian]

Wow.. I hate this comuter at the hotel. After I responded to this, and went to preview, I lost everything I did because I was logged out of spurstalk time-wise. Now I have to start over.

Yeah weren't you leaving or something?

So anyone who gets a deferment isn't qualified to send troops?

I guess that's why the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu went so well...

Clinton did get a deferment...

It's like talking to a wall. Really it is.

If you look deeper into the facts, you will see he was refering to his High School. He was unprepared for a university and took Community College classes before starting his 4 year degree, which he did in 4 years.

I don't really care.

I would say yes, coincidence.

Gestation is 9 months. However, conception is as much as 3 weeks before gestation starts. The author does use facts, but misleads the ignorant here. Have any children yorself by chance? I bet since you don't understand pregancy very well, the answer is no. If it was 10 months or longer, then you can imply it's not coincidence. At 9 month and 2 days, it is clear she is misleading her readers on that. You should look at the statistics of a timeline of how long it takes to have a baby after trying.

I'll bet the Cheney's decided to have children a few months earler after he recieved his BS degree earlier that year. Like any responsible parents, they waited for him to get his degree.

Because there's no way in she gave birth prematurely.

True, The military and intelligence wasn't yet decimated by Clinton.

I'm glad our president sent troops into battle based on a "decimated" intelligence community.

Yes, but he never thought he would be.

Ok mind reader. Doesn't even matter since he actually saw battle and Cheney didn't.

If you ever did a little research on what is released of his records, you will find that was his first choice of duty. At the time, it was the least likely to see combat.

Based on what statistics?

If you call disobeying standing orders and beaching a swift boat smart... A move that could have got them all killed...

OK...

If you say so...

I enjoy ellipses as well. However, I don't know where you're getting all your information about his war record. Is it from the swiftboat book?

Because I don't believe there is any sincerity about the situation. Only photo-ops.

Remember before the elections. He cancelled seeing injured soldiers because he couldn't bring the media with him?

That's not why he canceled
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...-explains.html

And out 2003 actions were justified by Saddam not following the agreements that stopped Desert Storm.

Such as?

Were you even an grade school in the early 90's?

Yeah, sure was.

That's not what I implied, and it was pretty strong in ciongress when they authorized military action. What was the approval among democrats? I forget. Care to look it up for me?

Don't care. What's it at now that we know the reasons for going in were bull .

The first wound, there was no battle.

lol the first wound. I wonder how many battle wounds Cheney has. Oh that's right! He doesn't have any because he got 5 deferments.

No, from firsthand accounts on record.

Link then.

Too bad only the second purple heart has any merit.

According to who?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp Read through that won't you?

I cannot stand the man.

Because he's a democrat

He dishonors the uniform.

At least he wore one.

You are so ing stupid to believe that.

I know I'm stupid to believe you support all the troops. Clearly you only support the republican troops.

I guess I should have said without the media. Obama won't do so unless he has a media style photo-op.

So you can't name any republicans. Thanks. Thought so. Can you name any republicans that go without the media?

Thing is, the president really is never on vacation. He always has access to what he needs. You and your fellow liberals having their panies in a wad over such things just shows how ignorant you really are.

You mean like your buddies did when Obama went to Europe?

It doesn't matter if it is one or fifty. Why must you prove you know how to count to five? Really, I believe you there.

You keep saying they weren't deferments.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

According to you there's no shame in staying away from the military. Why do you think I should enlist?

I have posted this in the past. Great memory you don't have. Is it a selective momory you have? No going to attempt to look it up now.

I'm shocked I tell ya. Shocked.

Tell me please. How do you tell the difference between a combatant that doesn't wear a uniform, and a civilian?

Do they have big targets painted on their shirts? Is it like in the movies where they're all carrying bank bags with big $$$ signs on them?

Could it be if he has a weapon or not, firing at you?

Sounds like a good method of identification.

Are you saying it doesn't stand to reason, for the enemy to collect all available weaponrey from their fallen comrads?

No...in fact that's not what I'm saying, at all.

Come on now. Even a little common sense tells us the numbers are exagerated.

Which numbers are we even talking about. SnC put out a number that no one has backed up.

Actively? By following the normal procedures of deferments, and required status changes by law?

He sought deferments = active

I never said anything remote to such a conspiracy.

Love your thinking. You take a link that proves a consiracy theory wrong, and says it disproves everything. My God... What stupidity you display, or think others do.

*sigh* Did you actually read the information in the link? Do I need to cut and paste the relevant parts for you?

Not that I recall

Thanks.

but he did exhaust our arselan of cruise missiles.

I wonder how many civilians he killed using them, instead of trained solders who can target in real time?

I dunno. Probably a lot. I wonder how many civilians have been killed since the start of the war there.

Iraq was more a threat than you realize. Saddam would pay families of suicide bombers for their sacrifice.

So he paid families of people who were already dead.

This was a great incentive.

Did he pay any suicide bombers that had killed themselves in the US?

He also allowed training camps in his country.

Training camps for which group?

Then of course, he violated the agreements that created the cease fire from Desert Storm. That alone is enough, otherwise others will with the USA.

Interesting line of thinking. Let's go into a country because hey, they made us look bad. We can't have that. DIE MOTHER ERS!

Maybe if Clinton didn't let him jerk us arond, maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened...

Maybe H.W. should have gone all the way to Baghdad. Maybe Bush should've read the brief about terrorists wanting to strike inside the U.S.

Get a grip. Soldiers die in war. If Clnton hadn't downsized the military and intelligence, we would have had less sldiers die.

Gotcha. So is it Clinton's fault we sent these soldiers to die in an unnecessary war? Like it or not the reasons we were given for the war were BULL and . You guys can't go back now and say, "Well he was more of a threat than we realized." Um, Bush, Cheney, and Rummy told us he was a grave threat because he had WMDs. He didn't. It was a bull then and it's bull now. Those people are dying for nothing. Unless you want to claim we need to go into North Korea (a country that actually does have WMD) or Darfur.

[Shastafarian]

Wrong. Hitler was not a self-loathing Jew. He wasn't even Jewish. At all. Read up on history man...that was a story people believed decades ago and there are no historical records of him being in any way Jewish or having Jewish blood.

I think he was being facetious.

[Winehole23]

Yep. Pity that has to be spelled out.

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah weren't you leaving or something?

Left Monday, I'll be here a couple more weeks.

Because there's no way in she gave birth prematurely.

It seems to me the author would have added tha if that were the case.

*sigh* Did you actually read the information in the link? Do I need to cut and paste the relevant parts for you?

Yes I read it. Are you saying the letter Clinton wrote and the testemony the Colonel gave is false?

Maybe H.W. should have gone all the way to Baghdad.

Everyone i knew and served with agreed with that assessment back then.

Maybe Bush should've read the brief about terrorists wanting to strike inside the U.S.

He did. Why should he have take it serious when Clinton did nothing?

Gotcha. So is it Clinton's fault we sent these soldiers to die in an unnecessary war?

I disagree the way was unnecessary.

Like it or not the reasons we were given for the war were BULL and .

I don't recall the reasons you call being bull and being the only ones. I guess you only listened to the liberal media that only reported those reasons.

You guys can't go back now and say, "Well he was more of a threat than we realized." Um, Bush, Cheney, and Rummy told us he was a grave threat because he had WMDs. He didn't. It was a bull then and it's bull now.

He allowed the world to think he had WMD because he didn't want others to take advantage of his weakness. It was his fault we invaded. He was suppose to be forthcoming, but just placed games with the inspectors. Clinton might have liked the game, but Bush, and many of us didn't after 9/11.

Those people are dying for nothing. Unless you want to claim we need to go into North Korea (a country that actually does have WMD) or Darfur.

I would have no problem going to N. Korea and stomping out their government. However, we don't feel the same threat of a regime who wants to play with big toys as much as someone who supports Jihadist activities against us.

How has N. Korea ever posed a threat to us? I say they haven't. Still, I would like to be able to take away those radioactive toys.

[Duff McCartney]

Yep. Pity that has to be spelled out.

Yeah like I could infer the tone you were trying to convey with words spelled out on a screen.

[Shastafarian]

He allowed the world to think he had WMD because he didn't want others to take advantage of his weakness. It was his fault we invaded. He was suppose to be forthcoming, but just placed games with the inspectors.

I mean, the inspectors finding nothing didn't really mean anything did it?

Clinton might have liked the game, but Bush, and many of us didn't after 9/11.

Yeah Bush was bent on finding those terrorists. Too bad he wasn't so gung-ho in the first 8 months of his presidency.

I would have no problem going to N. Korea and stomping out their government. However, we don't feel the same threat of a regime who wants to play with big toys as much as someone who supports Jihadist activities against us.

They have nuclear weapons. Those would be the most destructive weapon known. What's to stop them from selling one to a terrorist group. North Korean threat >>>> Iraqi threat

How has N. Korea ever posed a threat to us? I say they haven't. Still, I would like to be able to take away those radioactive toys.

They tested long range missiles. That's pretty threatening. Something Iraq was never able to accomplish.

[Duff McCartney]

If Saddam allowed the world to think he had WMD and he was really weak...then it points to a sorry state of the intelligence community... from the Pentagon tio the CIA. Any way you cut it....the Bush White House used flawed intelligence and dubious sources to make a case for war with a country that posed no threat.

[George Gervin's Afro]

If Saddam allowed the world to think he had WMD and he was really weak...then it points to a sorry state of the intelligence community... from the Pentagon tio the CIA. Any way you cut it....the Bush White House used flawed intelligence and dubious sources to make a case for war with a country that posed no threat.

you are a traitor!



Just saved the resident dead enders form wasting a post on you..

[spursncowboys]

If Saddam allowed the world to think he had WMD and he was really weak...then it points to a sorry state of the intelligence community... from the Pentagon tio the CIA. Any way you cut it....the Bush White House used flawed intelligence and dubious sources to make a case for war with a country that posed no threat.

It was bad intelligence. The entire world took it. From Russia, France and England, to US all thought he had WMD's. It was bad from both parties presidents and congressman. However WMD's were not the only reason we were going to war with Saddam's regime.

This is kind of like the Suaz Canal taken over by a dictator from Egypt. I have been trying to start a post about that but have not had anytime (damn you Win7!!!) this weekend.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It was bad intelligence. The entire world took it. From Russia, France and England, to US all thought he had WMD's. It was bad from both parties presidents and congressman. However WMD's were not the only reason we were going to war with Saddam's regime.
.

Yet rummy told us he knew where the wmds were...condi spoke of mushroom clouds, we heard of drone airplanes that could reach our shores.. mobile weapon labs (we even had pictures).. you're right no reason to question the people who started the war...

how are those facts? do you need links?

too bad you were never interested in wanting to know about the previous administrations motives or keeping them to their word when we went to war.... yet obama is the enemy....

[spursncowboys]

Yet rummy told us he knew where the wmds were...condi spoke of mushroom clouds, we heard of drone airplanes that could reach our shores.. mobile weapon labs (we even had pictures).. you're right no reason to question the people who started the war...

how are those facts? do you need links?

lets bring up the video of bill as pres, hillary, john edwards, all the democrats and see how sure they were of the threat saddam held.
When did I say not to question the ppl who started the war?

[George Gervin's Afro]

lets bring up the video of bill as pres, hillary, john edwards, all the democrats and see how sure they were of the threat saddam held.
When did I say not to question the ppl who started the war?

let's acknowledge who had the sole authority to start the war.. let's find where the buck stops.

[Winehole23]

Yeah like I could infer the tone you were trying to convey with words spelled out on a screen.

Fair enough. I'll use a smilie next time.

[symple19]

Liz who?

pretty much this

When I rotated out of Iraq I happened to be on my units last chalk. The thing was, it also happened to be that the plane we would be leaving on (to Kuwait) was also going to be carrying some fallen comrades. We were given the option to wait for another plane or to participate in the ceremony and fly with the caskets. So, we decided to participate in the ceremony, which is kind of like the reverse of what Obama did. It was a very powerful and sobering experience, because while we were going home happily, we would be sharing the ride with some who weren't nearly as fortunate. In some ways it was cool because we felt like their guardians as they left the place that took their lives, an escort on the initial stages of their ride home. We felt like they would have brothers with them, instead of a cold, empty, C-130 to ride in. I'll never forget it.

What Obama did was a good thing. It will help teach him, a non-military man, to respect what service members do, and the sacrifices they make. The fact that he had cameras there is basically irrelevant. He's a ing politician, what else is he going to do? It's par for the course people, like repubs don't do stuff like that. My guess is that he learned some important things from the experience, and the fact that cameras were there is irrelevant. (Unless, of course, you're a partisan hack who likes yelling in political forums)

Bush, on the other hand, met with families quite often. I had to personally pull security on a visit of his to Ft. Lewis Washington when he rode around post to meet with families of fallen soldiers. That particular day he was meeting with the families of slain Rangers (Ft. Lewis was Pat Tillmans home base) as well as other families of slain 2 ID soldiers. He spent the whole day doing this. He personally met with the family of a guy in my unit a year later.
He did it all the time, and Obama probably will too. It's a presidents duty to do such things.

So to those, like the d-bag in the countdown clip, who think Bush didn't do his duty are dead ing wrong. But to those who watch this crap on TV opinion shows (Fox & MSNBC) it sure does look good and seems to drive home a point. Unfortunately, it's just more ammo in a never ending game of misguided punditry which does no good at all. People should really stop watching that .

[MannyIsGod]

Great post.

[spursncowboys]

great post.

+1

[ElNono]

liz who?

+1

[Doug Reese]

He could be called a coward, ordering his ship away from battle in one instance. He was also stupid. Maybe not a coward. in one instance, he ordered the boat beached, to persue an enemy. He almost got himself and crew killed by violating standing procedure. His commander was split between courtmartialling him, and giving him a medal. If he wasn't a friend of the Kennedy family, I'll bet he would have been court marstialled. Instead, he recieved a Silver Star.

Sorry I couldn't have been more timely in making this reply.

The original post is littered with misrepresentations, misinformation and blatant falsehoods. So many, I think I'll just comment on just the one (above), as to comment on all of them would take too much time . . . . although what was said about Kerry's lottery number being low is pretty funny, since they didn't have lottery numbers back then.

Yes, he ordered his boat beached in order to pursue an enemy soldier. All the other comments (except frhim receiving a Silver Star) are false.

1. He did NOT "almost get his crew killed".

2. He was NOT violating standard procedure.

3. His commander did NOT consider court martialling him.

I am fairly certain that any facts provided to you would not be accepted, so I am posting this so other can know the truth.

I was on that Feb 28, 1969 operation -- as an Army advisor of the 60 or so Vietnamese troops who were on the Swifts that day. To make a long story short, beaching the boats under certain situations (such as the one that actually occured) was discussed with us AND the Navy in advance.

Specifically, the Swifts came to our village Feb 27 to talk about the operation, and the possibility of beaching. That, along with having Vietnamese troops aboard, had never been done previous to that day.

So, what was done, was PLANNED, and NOT against "standard procedure".

Kerry' actions saved his crew, as acknowledged by them afterwards.

The court martial comment, made by Kerry's commander, was TONGUE-in-CHEEK, according to the commander.

There were 25 of us there that day. Not a single one of us, and that includes the only member of the Swift Boat Veterans for "truth", has disagreed with Kerry's actions that day.

The only people who have a problem with Kerry's actions that day, without exception, were not there.

Doug Reese

[Wild Cobra]

Sorry I couldn't have been more timely in making this reply.
----

Well, excuse me for not believeing you, and believing other people's accounts. Are you claiming to be the real Doug Reese, or posting his material from somewhere?

[Doug Reese]

Well, excuse me for not believeing you, and believing other people's accounts. Are you claiming to be the real Doug Reese, or posting his material from somewhere?

Hmm, the "real Doug Reese"? Well, I'm Doug Reese, and what I post comes from me, not "somewhere".

Oh, and there is no account of what happened Feb 28, 1969, along the Dong Cung Canal, from anyone who was there, that disagrees with what I have posted.

There's plenty from those who were NOT there that disagrees with my comments, but not from anyone who was there.

Now, as for "me being me", do you have some sort of test to prove I am, well, me?

Doug Reese

[balli]

[spursncowboys]

Hmm, the "real Doug Reese"? Well, I'm Doug Reese, and what I post comes from me, not "somewhere".

Oh, and there is no account of what happened Feb 28, 1969, along the Dong Cung Canal, from anyone who was there, that disagrees with what I have posted.

There's plenty from those who were NOT there that disagrees with my comments, but not from anyone who was there.

Now, as for "me being me", do you have some sort of test to prove I am, well, me?

Doug Reese

Good try Shasta

[Doug Reese]

????

Doug Reese