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  1. #101
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    No, I was just drawing attention your proven inability to focus on what people say, and your innate love of non-responsive soapbox ranting.
    Nono is a big boy Whinehole he doesn't need you to talk through him, your just a who harrasses anybody that doesn't agree with you and you call it a conversation.But unlike you I'm married and have been along time, and so I know how to deal with women when they get a little y....

  2. #102
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Health plan covers assisted suicide but not new cancer treatment

    by Susan Harding and KATU Web Staff
    Originally printed at http://www.kval.com/news/26140519.html
    SPRINGFIELD, Ore. -- Barbara Wagner has one wish - for more time.

    "I'm not ready, I'm not ready to die," the Springfield woman said. "I've got things I'd still like to do."
    Her doctor offered hope in the new chemotherapy drug Tarceva, but the Oregon Health Plan sent her a letter telling her the cancer treatment was not approved.

    Instead, the letter said, the plan would pay for comfort care, including "physician aid in dying," better known as assisted suicide.
    "I told them, I said, 'Who do you guys think you are?' You know, to say that you'll pay for my dying, but you won't pay to help me possibly live longer?' " Wagner said.
    An unfortunate interpretation?

    Dr. Som Saha, chairman of the commission that sets policy for the Oregon Health Plan, said Wagner is making an "unfortunate interpretation" of the letter and that no one is telling her the health plan will only pay for her to die.

    One critic of assisted suicide calls the message disturbing nonetheless.
    "People deserve relief of their suffering, not giving them an overdose," said Dr. William Toffler.

    He said the state has a financial incentive to offer death instead of life: Chemotherapy drugs such as Tarceva cost $4,000 a month while drugs for assisted suicide cost less than $100.

    Saha said state health officials do not consider whether it is cheaper for someone in the health plan to die than live. However, he admitted they must consider the state's limited dollars when dealing with a case such as Wagner's.

    "If we invest thousands and thousands of dollars in one person's days to weeks, we are taking away those dollars from someone," Saha said.
    But the medical director at the cancer center where Wagner gets her care said some people may have incredible responses to treatment.

    Health plan hasn't evolved?
    The Oregon Health Plan simply hasn't kept up with dramatic changes in chemotherapy, said Dr. David Fryefield of the Willamette Valley Cancer Center.

    Even for those with advanced cancer, new chemotherapy drugs can extend life.

    Yet the Oregon Health Plan only offers coverage for chemo that cures cancer - not if it can prolong a patient's life.

    "We are looking at today's ... 2008 treatment, but we're using 1993 standards," Fryefield said. "When the Oregon Health Plan was created, it was 15 years ago, and there were not all the chemotherapy drugs that there are today."
    Patients like Wagner can appeal a decision if they are denied coverage. Wagner appealed twice but lost both times.
    However, her doctors contacted the pharmaceutical company, Genentech, which agreed to give her the medication without charging her. Doctors said that is unusual for a company to give away such an expensive medication.


  3. #103
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Nono is a big boy Whinehole he doesn't need you to talk through him, your just a who harrasses anybody that doesn't agree with you and you call it a conversation.But unlike you I'm married and have been along time, and so I know how to deal with women when they get a little y....

  4. #104
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    your just a who harrasses anybody that doesn't agree with you and you call it a conversation
    You resemble this remark. A lot.

    Except, you don't understand what people say to start with. Most of the time your objections are directed not at actual posts or posters, but at cookie-cutter strawmen of your own devising.

  5. #105
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    I know where they come from. And all those companies are ready to adapt to different conditions. After all, all these drug companies have no problem selling their same medicines to other countries at 1/3 the cost they sell them to the US. But all those companies do provide an actual healthcare service, much like a doctor. How do you justify the for-profit insurance company though?
    So now you know where they came from huh.....I justify anybody who offers a service a profit. I do not however justify them using there wealth to evade their resposiblities. to use the courts to deny payments, or to influence political favortisim.

  6. #106
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Strawman

  7. #107
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    So now you know where they came from huh.....I justify anybody who offers a service a profit. I do not however justify them using there wealth to evade their resposiblities. to use the courts to deny payments, or to influence political favortisim.
    This is all I needed to know. Thanks.

  8. #108
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    You resemble this remark. A lot.

    Except, you don't understand what people say to start with. Most of the time your objections are directed not at actual posts or posters, but at cookie-cutter strawmen of your own devising.
    You resemble this remark.....that's it....Let me publicly apologize to any women I may of offended by comparing whinehole's y little tantrums and attention grabbing..... with you.
    Not even in the deepest darkest hours of PMS has any woman I've known sunk to such stupidity

  9. #109
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    This is all I needed to know. Thanks.
    go easy.

  10. #110
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    I know where they come from. And all those companies are ready to adapt to different conditions. After all, all these drug companies have no problem selling their same medicines to other countries at 1/3 the cost they sell them to the US. But all those companies do provide an actual healthcare service, much like a doctor. How do you justify the for-profit insurance company though?
    Our cost of living is higher. That might be the reason.
    ALso this reminds me of Ron Paul talking about this being an example of free markets working. If you can get it somewhere cheaper we should be able to. We should be able to utilize our resourcesI(internet) to buy the best product for the best price. If they didn't criminalize buying prescriptions from different countries then the lack of demand could have forced the Co.'s to lower their price.

  11. #111
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Let me publicly apologize to any women I may of offended by comparing whinehole's y little tantrums and attention grabbing..... with you.
    Not even in the deepest darkest hours of PMS has any woman I've known sunk to such stupidity
    What sensitivity.

  12. #112
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Atleast my posts are on healthcare and not trolling comments about the poster.

  13. #113
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Not to mention he skipped addressing entirely why insurance companies have a god given right to profits...
    Are you saying everyone has a god given right to have an abortion paid for by the government?

  14. #114
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    No wonder you're not married....

  15. #115
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Our cost of living is higher. That might be the reason.
    ALso this reminds me of Ron Paul talking about this being an example of free markets working. If you can get it somewhere cheaper we should be able to. We should be able to utilize our resourcesI(internet) to buy the best product for the best price. If they didn't criminalize buying prescriptions from different countries then the lack of demand could have forced the Co.'s to lower their price.
    Who are they?

  16. #116
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Are you saying everyone has a god given right to have an abortion paid for by the government?
    You tell me, am I?

  17. #117
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    No wonder you're not married....
    Yes, I know, in your fantasies I'm gay.

    Don't worry, micca, I won't burst your bubble.

  18. #118
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    American politicians.

  19. #119
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    American politicians.
    Well, but if you allow generic drugs coming in from the border then drug companies can't profit as much, or spend as much in marketing.
    Now, that wouldn't be fair in a free market system, would it?

  20. #120
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Well, but if you allow generic drugs coming in from the border then drug companies can't profit as much, or spend as much in marketing.
    Now, that wouldn't be fair in a free market system, would it?
    Generic drugs arguement is strawman. However I do not allow my daughters to say that four letter f word, and I won't either. Pfizer spent almost 8 billion in Research and Development, in one year. In every category, the private sector outpaces the public and does it for less the cost.

  21. #121
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    If they didn't criminalize buying prescriptions from different countries
    Generic drugs arguement is strawman.
    You brought it up...

    And let me add Pfizer spends more in marketing than actual R&D...

  22. #122
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    There is such a thing as not for profit insurance.
    Around 40% of current private insurance is not for profit if I remember correctly.

  23. #123
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    In every category, the private sector outpaces the public and does it for less the cost.
    This may be true of R&D, but is not true for health care. Just compare the cost of Medicare to private insurance.

    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...0&postcount=21

  24. #124
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Generic drugs arguement is strawman. However I do not allow my daughters to say that four letter f word, and I won't either. Pfizer spent almost 8 billion in Research and Development, in one year. In every category, the private sector outpaces the public and does it for less the cost.
    Thats an unsubstantiated myth if I've ever seen one. But if you can provide actual figures to back it up I would gladly see them.

  25. #125
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    "private sector outpaces the public and does it for less the cost."

    YOU LIE!

    medicare/medicaid has overhead of about 3%, while private insurance overheads run 15% - 20%+.

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