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How many championships the Spurs won with Matt Bonner as starting PF/C - 0
So you can shutup and relax. The OP was being nice and respectful, and here you are acting like a total savage hurling insults
By overplaying the Fossil and the Stepchild, Pop is just showing how stupid he can be. Too bad our assistant coaches have the collective IQ of a grapefruit.
How many championships the Spurs won with Matt Bonner as starting PF/C - 0
So you can shutup and relax. The OP was being nice and respectful, and here you are acting like a total savage hurling insults
I don't think Bonner is a bad defender at all, but I also don't see how he can be considered a good defender..I think he's an average defender that doesn't hurt us defensively, but doesn't do nearly enough to compensate for games where he isn't making his deep shots..
Finley's defense IS a problem though, and I can't really see how anybody would disagree..he gives the effort for the most part, he just doesn't have the physical tools to give us what we need defensively..he's too slow on rotations, which is something that everybody should expect from a 35+ year old offensive specialist..
I would try limiting Finley's minutes for Bogans or Hairston first, and see if the defense improves..
Pop has to try something new though, that's the only way we can find out what works for us..usually I would believe he would definitely do it, but TBH, I just don't know anymore when Finley is involved in the conversation..
It's still REALLY early in the season though, so we'll see how it goes..at least we have other options now, unlike last year..
Matt's Bonner's perimeter defense is better than people give him credit for, and he's faster on the perimeter than people give him credit for. Which is why I still believe Pop should turn to him as our 3 hitting 3's off the bench.
So you say he's not a small forward? He sure as isn't a POWER forward.
Finley is the bigger problem.
Bonner is at least servicible on the perimeter. He shouldn't be anything but a specialist who doesn't even play every game. But he's still a legit NBA player.
Finley is a disaster though. He is only of deceptive use when his jumper is falling. And by deceptive I mean he's still not useful as he can't play defense anymore or do anything else, but a few jumpers fools people into thinking he can serve a role.
But as he gets older, and it's been this way for years now, his scoring droughts will get longer and longer. Then when he has his 6-7 game once a month and knocks down 4 3-pointers all the suckers will scream "Where's the Finley haters now?"
Shame on everyone who honestly thought the addition of RJ and a healthy Manu would make Finley a 12th man. Come on people.
There is no excuse for Pop in this regard. The early season 'experimenting' excuse for still playing Finley let alone starting him? Give me break, there are no new results coming. There are no legit reasons to experiment with him, he's proven what he is the last two years. He's proven it heavy, he's proven it at a lighter weight. They cannot win the le with him in the rotation at this point of his career.
The other players can carry him through a bunch of regular season wins and that's it.
REAL experimenting by Pop this early in the season with all the days off and practice schedule would be throwing Hairston, Haislip and Mahinmi into the fire at least until Christmas when the ABC telecasts start. THAT would be an experiment, because you can't know the results beforehand. That could fail miserably.
But even if those experiments failed . . . it's not like you couldn't go to Finley and Bonner and not get the same standard of play you would expect. Finley and Bonner have spent years in the system, they're not going to forget it.
Benching them until Christmas still gives plenty of regular season games for them to get into shape and get their rhythm, such as it is.
But if the H-H-M experiment succeeds, partially or in whole, the team and it's chances improve to win a le.
Agreed. Season is young with time to figure things out and get better.
Also Bonner had better be hitting his 3's. If not then they sag off him, double team TD and clog the lane, which limits TP's drives to either score or dish. If Booner is cold then he should sit and his minutes given to others. When he and Fin are on - Hornets game - we spread the floor so much that it because an offensive feast.
I agree that Bonner's D isn't as bad as most make it out to be but if Bonner is benched in favor of Dice then you have both Blair and Bonner on the floor more so than not, which would really hurt our interior D. Balancing TD with Bonner and Dice with Blair makes sense right now because I really don't see Theo playing 20+ mpg so you're stuck with Bonner until Haislip starts to show something and Hairston is a wing player.
Fin is the problem but as stated numerous times Fin is more effective when he starts rather than coming in off the bench. I think Pop discovered that a couple of years ago and has been starting Fin ever since. He just doesn't seem to get into the flow of the game when subbing for others. And when his O is clicking then he plays much better D. If he isn't on then his all around game is pretty much nonexistent.
The silver lining about Fin is that he most likely wont be back next year so we're stuck with him for now. Pop has to make the best of this situation and we all know about his tendencies towards vets vs. rookies/young newbies. Anyway if Fin is benched he would be a marginal player at best with a couple of games here and there where he contributes. It seems that Pop believes he contributes best by starting - that way Pop can see what is happening game wise and adjust accordingly - either let it ride or pull depending on his production.
Both of them are going to have good and bad games. Until some of the younger players start to show Pop something in practice I really don't see either one of them out of the rotation much less out of the starting lineup. But to me it really doesn't matter who is starting but who is finishing the 4th Q that counts.
I believe that they will eventually be phased out. Remember, we have a lot of new players and they are still learning the system. It's a long season we just have to be patience.
I personally don't like finley starting but we'll wait it out for now.
I don't really mind Bonner starting right now..as I said, Finley starting is what bothers me the most.. , not even Finley starting, just Finley playing significant minutes..I don't care if he starts and plays 10 MPG, but 20+ is way too much at this point in his career..
He's one of the best spot-up 3-point shooters in the NBA, but he doesn't offer ANYTHING more than that at all..as a lot of us have been complaining about for a while, something that might be the even bigger issue is that we have BOTH Finley and Mason in the rotation together..having one 1-D player in the rotation is fine with me, every team does it, but 2 that play the exact same style?..
the Lakers 1-D player is Derek Fisher..he starts and isn't that good anymore, their fans always complain about him..like Finley, he is known for making clutch spot-up 3s, and a good veteran presence..he's the 1 guy though..Vujacic is the other 1-D player..he only plays 8 MPG right now, and will probably be fazed out, since he's a horrible basketball player that was near the doghouse..Fisher's weaknesses are clear and they were exploited by quick PGs last year, but the Lakers can afford to play him with their high talent everywhere else..more importantly, Phil Jackson actually plays Shannon Brown as an alternative, a guy that plays on energy and athleticism(something Hairston could bring..
the Celtics 1-D player is Eddie House, and he's currently playing around 15 MPG..
the Cavs have Daniel Gibson, currently playing 23 MPG..
the Magic have JJ and Ryan Anderson..one of them stretches the floor as a big(Bonner-style), and the other is a 1-D shooter..different styles..their other wings are all-around role players..
the Nuggets have Anthony Carter and Birdman, different styles..Afflalo is currently playing a similar role to Carter(defensive specialist), but will probably be fazed out when JR Smith returns, since Karl has a Finley-like relationship with Carter..
We're the only potential contender that has 2 1-D players that play the exact same style in the rotation..having 1-D players isn't bad at all, we've had some big contributors on our le teams that weren't all-around players..the problem is when they play the exact same role, and we don't have an alternative when we need a different style to match the opposing team..
Again, it's really early in the season, so I'm not mad or anything..I just hope Pop gives Bogans and Hairston a shot at bringing us something different when we need it, and I'm sure he will..not only so we know what they can bring, but also to find out whether we need a defensive stopper role player at the deadline..
Ryan Anderson is better than Bonner with the potential to get even better. He's bigger, longer, can drive better, should be able to rebound better, passes better . . .
Ryan Anderson is everything the Spurs hoped they'd get when they gave Bonner a 3 year deal to be the 'Horry replacement'.
I agree that Anderson is better offensively, but disagree that he's a better defender..that doesn't really change my point though, Ryan isn't a versatile player(coming from a guy that defended him as being more than just a filler in the VC trade, and a guy that went to many Nets games last year)..
It makes me angry to see Finley out there. We have so many options to mess around with. Pops said he was excited about having new toys to play with but is stuck playing with Finley's knob. I know Bonner is out there to create space in the paint but when he is off the team has no chance against a solid team. Finley needs to be playing 10 to 15 minutes a game.
I'm beginning to wonder if pop's plan may be changing or evolving a little, even taking last year and the league changes into consideration. I believe he'll always be a defense first kind of coach but not if the team's strengths are obviously elsewhere. He'll work what he can and take what he can get from his players. I wouldn't be surprised if our opponent scoring and shooting percentages aren't in the top 5 this year. I want them to be, since thats how we've gone all the way in the past, but could it be possible that pop could build this into a team that is deep, offensively efficient, and can get stops when they really have to? And still take us to the finals?
i understand bonner starting. popovich is just limiting the minutes of mcdyess because he doesn't need to show up until playoff time and blair because he's a rookie who should be eased into NBA ball. bonner is pretty much useless when his shot isn't hitting and still pretty average when he is hitting 3's but mcdyess shouldn't need to go through yet another NBA grind just so the spurs can win some early games.
finley getting so many minutes, on the other hand, is a bit frustrating. he's still useful in clutch situation and the occasional catch and shoot play but mason should be getting the brunt of the minutes. i've kind of stepped back a little bit on the mason bandwagon after his pretty below average second half of the regular season and playoffs. but he should be getting more minutes than finley at the very least. it's the beginning of the season and popovich should push mason.
Bonner is fine, but we shouldn't have a 36 year old Finley defend the best player every night. He is way too inconsistent now. He is a great shooter, but his shot is only falling once every few nights, and even when it does, it doesn't nearly make up for his horrible defense. Bottom line, he is hurting the team WAY MORE than he is helping it.
He should just be a back-up SF for RJ. Roger Mason should start.
Anderson's game has evolved.
I've watched the first 3 games on the magic and Anderson has added some versatility to his game. He quite often takes the ball to the basket and is a better rebounder than Bonner. He is a better ballhandler and passer.
If I had to pick one or the other for the same $$ it would be a no-brainer, I'd take Anderson in a heartbeat.
Thank you!! That was pretty annoying.
Anyway, all I'm asking for is our defense going back to elite status. Damn those Celts are leading the way defensively.
Just one thing, the Spurs only started playing Matt Bonner at the PF/C spot as a starter last season, which was the only season, we all know how that turned out. Many players got injured and somehow the Spurs got 54 wins, so Matt Bonner starting and winning championships is still an unknown.
Dude.... don't let facts get in the way of a popular accusation, if you're not hating on Fin and Bonner you're not cool, apparently.
do you think Pop is NOT working on a re-emphasis on defense? come on, there have been 3 games. THREE GAMES. if you say yr not panicking or overreacting then just let it play out.
where are all the finley/bonner gripers when someone offers a credible basketball answer to "why are finley/bonner playing significant minutes when they look like serious liabilities on defense and can't really create plays for themselves?"
seriously. it's like people who repeatedly ask these questions watch basketball and only see the names on the jerseys and whether or not the ball gets in the basket. HOW the ball gets in or WHO gets the ball or WHY the ball isn't going in, etc must not cross their minds. there's no way it does because if it did there's no way these ignorant complaints wouldn't have ceased during the 1st rd loss last season.
regarding this season. again, it's been THREE FRICKIN' GAMES. since when do games 1-3 predict the future of the entire nba and every game it plays? Any time you think you have a legitimate problem with how things are going you need to consider a solution, right?
Who's going to start instead of Bonner and Finley? or Why are Bonner/Finley starting?
long Answer- we have 6 BRAND NEW players on the team. We are a team with a reputation of complex defensive and offensive strategies as well as being reluctant to rely on young/rookie/new players. Last year we broke from that iden y and look at the results/fan approval(not up to standard)
Pop said it himself he's limited the playbook for now. He's also starting players familiar with the system so the game can start with a good flow. AND BESIDES- who is actually playing "significant minutes"? nobody. we've had three blowouts. We have no way of saying for sure that should Thursday's game against Utah-should it be compe ive-will have 35 minutes from Finley and 29 from Bonner. You just don't know cause it's way early and we haven't even played a tight game.
The starting lineup has Richard Jefferson. Are we going to have two or more newbies in the starting lineup? would that be a good idea? will it be a better idea midseason when everyone's more comfortable with the system? think about it-
we have 5 'spurs veterans'
1-Tim Duncan
2-Tony Parker
3-Manu Ginobili
4-Michael Finley
5-Matt Bonner
Limited experience
1-Roger Mason
2-George Hill
3-Ian Mahinmi(been with the team a bit but has played 6 games, might as well put him in the 'brand new' list
4-Malik Hairston(2nd year but just as experienced as Ian)
LET THIS PLAY OUT. PLEASE STOP ING ABOUT FINLEY/BONNER. SUPPORT YOUR TEAM. i guarantee you things will shape up well. you know the spurs are always an evolving team. the chemistry always becomes it's own animal by the playoffs. and bonner/finley will play their role and be just as important and unique as the rest of the exciting new comers. 2010 has the potential to be the best Spurs season ever. Don't spoil it, enjoy it!
chill out man. we're not panicking, i stated it clearly from the start that this is a thread to share our thoughts on these two guys throughout the season. we respect your opinion but you gotta chill. we're not asking for Pop's head or anything. try to read my last paragraph. maybe some people are ing about these players because they actually care about the team. just because they do not share the same opinion as yours doesn't mean you can stop them from having their own opinions. thats why this is a forum.
am chill.... "f you say yr not panicking or overreacting then just let it play out." aka dedicating time and reserving future time on bonner/finley is a waste of everyone's time. again, chill, just calling bull on all the unnecessary bonner/finley chatter.
i like sharing thoughts. i'm offering my thoughts. i think a lot of the posting doesn't includes 'thoughts', more like 'gut reactions' i'm saying that too many posts are thoughtless. again, chill, all for discussion, just trying to offer some 'thought' beyond finley/bonner. there's much, much more to the team. hoping people posting about finley/bonner will add their two cents without focusing so much attention on these two guys.
do i sound redundant? probably. i read all your paragraphs and other people's. it's really annoying when people are constantly referring to their own posts like some kind of ultimate statement, or to a lesser degree as a completely well represented thought. ..... i know mine aren't always totally clear so i'll admit it rather than point the finger......
but what i was trying to say in a less rude way is,
"finley/bonner talk is usually crap. non-basketball fan-talk. bull ."
doesn't mean your post is the problem. there are a lot of problems. i can be a problem. thought offering another point of view in previous post was better than saying, "YOU DON'T KNOW JACK ABOUT BASKETBALL, TAKE A NAP"
bzzzzz bzzzzz bzzzzz (ending the non-chill)
I'm just not understanding this whole ease thing. Homers have said it themselves. "This is still Spurs preseason so just chill haters" Well if that is so shouldn't the new players be getting the burn now early in the season rather then later when things need to start tightening up? It just all seems like an oxymoron to me.
4 pages of "talk" about these 2 scrubs. impressive
These "scrubs" get more playing time than the man in your avatar.4 pages of "talk" about these 2 scrubs. impressive
Freaking travesty if you ask me.
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