fort hood

[Winehole23]

Yeah, I have. Your point?

[Cry Havoc]

This thread is wow. I have no words.

Should all people of all faiths now be subject to search & seizure without warning? There are extremists of every faith, and atheism has shown itself to have some crazies as well. Perhaps we should just do away with civil rights and interrogate anyone who isn't wearing United States flag underwear?

On a personal note, a good friend of mine was injured at Fort Hood yesterday. She was on-duty and was hit by a single round, I think in the arm, but that's unconfirmed. So far I only know for certain is that she is alive. Prayers/good thoughts would be appreciated.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This thread is wow. I have no words.

Should all people of all faiths now be subject to search & seizure without warning? There are extremists of every faith, and atheism has shown itself to have some crazies as well. Perhaps we should just do away with civil rights and interrogate anyone who isn't wearing United States flag underwear?

On a personal note, a good friend of mine was injured at Fort Hood yesterday. She was on-duty and was hit by a single round, I think in the arm, but that's unconfirmed. So far I only know for certain is that she is alive. Prayers/good thoughts would be appreciated.

First, good to hear about your friend.

Second, I don't think the search and seize without warning is valid. The problem with this situation is this guy was identified and investigated months earlier, but due to political correctness was not booted from the military.

13 American soldiers paid the ultimate price yesterday because of it.

[Winehole23]

Second, I don't think the search and seize without warning is valid. The problem with this situation is this guy was identified and investigated months earlier, but due to political correctness was not booted from the military.

Declarative case. Hmm.

Do you know something the rest of us don't? Had Major Hasan done something that warranted being booted?

[DarrinS]

This thread is wow. I have no words.

Should all people of all faiths now be subject to search & seizure without warning? There are extremists of every faith, and atheism has shown itself to have some crazies as well. Perhaps we should just do away with civil rights and interrogate anyone who isn't wearing United States flag underwear?

My opinions are based on 40 years of life experience. Unfortunately, in those years, one group is disproportionately represented in carrying out these types of heinous acts.

On a personal note, a good friend of mine was injured at Fort Hood yesterday. She was on-duty and was hit by a single round, I think in the arm, but that's unconfirmed. So far I only know for certain is that she is alive. Prayers/good thoughts would be appreciated.

Sorry for your friend. Hope she is ok.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Anxiety-detecting machines could spot terrorists

Like the TSA's program,FAST raises reliability questions. Even if machines accurately spot someone whose heart rate jumps suddenly, that may signal the agitation of learning aflight is delayed, said Timothy Levine, a Michigan State University expert ondeceptive behavior.

"What determines your heart rate is a whole bunch ofreasons besides hostile intent," Levine said. "This is the whole reason behavioral profiles don't work."

Burns said the measurements would not be stored and would give a quick read on someone. Previous research, Burns added, has found that people planning to cause harm act differently from the anxious or annoyed.


----

Good luck with that. If you think it's annoying to flight right now, wait until this starts spitting false positives like there's no tomorrow.

Eh, it's worked for Israel for a good 25 years now...

[Shastafarian]

My opinions are based on 40 years of life experience. Unfortunately, in those years, one group is disproportionately represented in carrying out these types of heinous acts.

Men?

[MannyIsGod]

My opinions are based on 40 years of life experience. Unfortunately, in those years, one group is disproportionately represented in carrying out these types of heinous acts.

I'd like to see your statistics on this.

[Winehole23]

My opinions are based on 40 years of life experience. Unfortunately, in those years, one group is disproportionately represented in carrying out these types of heinous acts.

Is that just your perception, or can you back that up empirically?

[DarrinS]

I'd like to see your statistics on this.

Just a few off the top of my head.


1972 Olympics in Munich
Iranian revolution and hostage crisis
Beiruit bombing in 1983
Lockerby bombing in 1988
WTC bombing in 1993
Mogadishu, Somalia
Khobar Towers
USS Cole
Y2K plot
American embassy bombings in Africa
911

[MannyIsGod]

Those aren't statistics. Those are examples.

[whottt]

Thats a fairly nuanced statement. I don't know how this alone can be construed as having an extremist point of view. I don't know enough about Islam to say what he says is correct or incorrect, but I don't see anything in there that points to terrorism at all.

There's not anything in there that points terrorism, that is war. There was nothing terrorist about the Kamikazees and there's nothing terrorist about blowing yourself up to kill enemy soldiers or destroy military targets.

It becomes terrorism when the entire purpose is to target civillians and to a lesser extent deliberately endanger civillians by using them as shields or camouflage.

It's trickier in the case where everyone is basically a potential member of the military including women or even children as was the case with the Khmer Rouge. If everyone is in the military, including the women and children, then everyone is a target.

[MannyIsGod]

There's not anything in there that points terrorism, that is war. There was nothing terrorist about the Kamikazees and there's nothing terrorist about blowing yourself up to kill enemy soldiers or destroy military targets.

It becomes terrorism when the entire purpose is to target civillians and to a lesser extend deliberately endanger civillians by using them as shields or camouflage.

It's trickier in the case where everyone is basically a potential member of the military including women or even children as was the case with the Khmer Rouge.

I agree with this completely.

[MannyIsGod]

Which also brings to question, Whottt. Can yesterday's attack ever be considered terrorism even if he had ties with terrorist groups considering the target of the attack was a military one?

[whottt]

Which also brings to question, Whottt. Can yesterday's attack ever be considered terrorism even if he had ties with terrorist groups considering the target of the attack was a military one?

Nope. It's not an act of terror. Espionage would be a better term, and that's someting that's generally accepted by everyone as a convention of warfare...

Yes it's in the rules and it's also in the rules that when the guy gets caught, he is royally ed and basically anything the captors want to do to him is fair game. It's basically like he doesn't exist.

This is why I had no problem with certain Quantanmo detainees being tortured...if they failed to mark themselves clearly as enemy combatats and attempted to pass themselves off as civillians, they were basically spies and subject to the same treatment as the spies of any country are. They cease to exist as human beings once they are caught.


This applies to US special forces attempting to masquerade as civillians as well...if those guys get caught, and they do, anything their captors want to do to them is fair game according to the rules of war as I understand them. Spies simply do not exist once caught.

[MannyIsGod]

Interesting viewpoint.

[Winehole23]

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm

[whottt]

Interesting viewpoint.

Look at it this way...if someone is going to masquerade as a civillian and is caught doing it, then in order to avoid rampant mistrust and persecution of innocent people, which is never right, say in this case innocent muslims, torturing the out of the guy to find out just who is and who isn't also a spy is actually the best way to keep the truly innocent out of the conflict.

You take on the role of the spy, you give up your right to any tenet of the Geneva convention and the support of the country/people on whose behalf you are operating.

And generally, countries do not acknowledge the existence of their spies when they are caught...they totally deny their existence.

They simply say, he's not our spy, we have no idea who he is...the captors then say, ok then, well if no one is going to intercede on his behalf and claim him, then we have a right to find out just who he is and what he is doing here to protect our own people.

It's really the ultimate act of patriotism...because you are truly on island all alone and the consequences of being caught are the absolute worst of any war combatant. I think most people that do this are generally aware of the consequences if they are caught and are willing to accept them. Death is not the worst thing that can happen to them. Not a by a longshot.

I know they tell the US Special Forces that do these activities...if you get caught, kill yourself before they do. And I believe they are equipped with the means to do so. And you will never hear the US Govt publicize it when it happens.


You can't round up every Muslim, or Japanese, or every American, but you can torture the out fo the guy to find out exactly who you do need to round up, assuming he knows of course.

Yeah it can get ed up when people that aren't spies are accused of being as such, which happens all the time, or spies name innocent people, and give false information but that's why war is a . and torturing the out of one guy is a better prospect than mass killing or persecution...and you know, if you aren't in the military, and you aren't a spy, you really need to get the out places where people are killing each other or creating the means to do so.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Men?

ethnics?

[whottt]

My belief is that whether this guy is acting on behalf of anyone else or not...he's still a decptive enemy. Traitor, lunatic or spy take your pick...if he's a traitor or a spy, both are subject to the same treatment as far I am concerned..and there's absolutely no doubt about his guilt. People have a right to protect themselves against those either ignoring the rules or taking advantage of them. Whatever they want to do to this guy...is fair game and that includes torturning the out of him. It's the best way to protect ourselves, and innocent people that might otherwise take the brunt of the consquences of his actions.

May be inhumane, but IMO, it's the best compromise between humanity and stupidity.

[Oh, Gee!!]

for now, he's a mass murderer imo.

[DarrinS]

Those aren't statistics. Those are examples.

Sorry Manny. I don't have any examples of attacks by the Amish, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.

[Winehole23]

Sorry Manny. I don't have any examples of attacks by the Amish, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.

So then perhaps the case is that your own awareness is limited -- or selective -- rather than things being as disproportionate as you suggested.

[rjv]

Those aren't statistics. Those are examples.

now you're using logic. that's a technical foul.

[DarrinS]

So then perhaps the case is that your own awareness is limited -- or selective -- rather than things being as disproportionate as you suggested.

In my lifetime, no other particular group has carried out more attacks against the US.


Can you disprove that?