The problem I have with that sentiment, is that I just don't see that they suddenly dropped skill when they moved over to the UFC and are now s s of their former selves with less than 2 years between the transitions over to the different orgs. I didn't hear people say they were better in Pride and "you can tell they are on the downside of their careers" until after they lost. That's the problem I have with that. I think they are / were both good. Fedor is a toss-up though, was he just the best of the also-rans, or was he really that good? It's going to be too late now to even know. If he comes over the UFC in one year and loses. You already know the excuse.. "they should have fought in 2005, etc."
Andre was one of the best, but his chin betrays him time and time again. Tim wasn't as skillful as some of the others, but his size and determination have taken him a long way.
I do believe that the string of "lower-level" opponents isn't entirely of his choosing. If you recall, Barnett screwed all of us out of a great fightI also think that Fedor's management plays an even larger part than most of us suspect.
Some good points made. I feel from what i have seen out of Fedor in his last few fights that he would beat basically all of the UFC heavies with the exception of Brock, Carwin and Cain. Not saying he has no shot to beat them but i have doubts given their skill-set and size, especially Brock and Carwin. We know he can beat Nog, he'd kill Randy, Kongo, Gonzaga and all those guys in the middle tier of the division. Again that is just my opinion but Fedor is the one that leaves it all to doubt and allows his career to be disected like this. When Pride went under the UFC tried to sign him, he declined. When Affliction went under they tried again with reportedly an even better offer, and it went nowhere. What are you gonna do, it's his fault people look at his career like this..
THANK YOU!
What a little baby! He reminds me of a 6 yr old who just got beat up by his big brother. There is no excuse for that iness. Fedor should be the easiest guy to lose to considering how humble he is after the fight. WHAT A
Lesnar is 32..
Young 32 for MMA, not a lot of injuries or a lot of fights and he smartly got out of pro-wrestling before he was broken down from it.
Well lesnar resume is way better huh?
You people make me laugh. Who Lesnar fought? The best?
43 randy?
top10 Mir?
Herring? lol
That's all that's it?
Carwin fight gonna happen? Who did carwin won with? Gonzaga? loltz
Cain? He was good enough for Rothwell and Kongo. Best of the best.
How can you question Fedors greatness is beyond me. I guess you've got blinded by Dana White.
Last edited by polandprzem; 11-10-2009 at 05:46 AM.
I forgot about Min-Soo Kim
I apologize - Lesnar is the greatest
Short-term memory for you too. Who has Lesnar beaten that was so great? Herring, whom Fedor beat in his prime and stopped? Mir, who is 4-3 in his last 7 fights. Mir, who has been stopped from his back twice prior by Pe De Pano and Ian Freeman (and starched by Vera). 46-year-old Randy Couture, who was coming off over a year layoff (Randy with a crapload of losses). Not to mention some people say Randy won the first round against Lesnar.
People are impressed with the fact that Fedor hasn't had a legit loss in his whole career. Being 30-1 while fighting at a high level is a lot more impressive than being 4-1 and fighting at a high level.
Also, Carwin is no more accomplished in MMA than Rogers. Both have around 10 wins, and both had only beat 1 big name opponent. Rogers beat Arlovski in 22 seconds, and Carwin almost got KTFO by Gonzaga before KO'in him instead.
Lesnar should be chasing Fedor and begging him for a le shot, Fedor shouldn't have to chase anybody. He's the most accomplished heavyweight in MMA other than Nogueira (whom he beat twice).
Dana's newest take on Fedor:
"Fedor just got his face smashed in by Brett Rogers. Do you know what Brock or Frank Mir and Cain Velasquez would do to Brett Rogers?" White said. "It's time to bring this guy [Fedor] in, to see Brock Lesnar smash his head."
FRANK MIR? REALLY??
Dana should ease off on Brock until he gets well and back fighting..Dana's newest take on Fedor:
"Fedor just got his face smashed in by Brett Rogers. Do you know what Brock or Frank Mir and Cain Velasquez would do to Brett Rogers?" White said. "It's time to bring this guy [Fedor] in, to see Brock Lesnar smash his head."
FRANK MIR? REALLY??
How do I have short-term memory loss? Why don't you read the statements before trying to jump in conversations. I know Lesnar's record and who he's fought. I never said I didn't, nor did I say he accomplished anything greater than Fedor, nor did I say it had any relevance to any point I made. Hi! Welcome to reading comprehension, glad you didn't go to high school. So, get your facts straight. I said, and you can read on the other page the exact quote, that Lesnar would smash Fedor. Do I need to say that he has 40 ing fights in order to believe that he would? No, I can watch a fat and out-of-shape Rogers control Fedor and sweep him, etc. If you don't agree, good for you. That's your opinion. Lesnar is too big and strong, and I bet he can last more than a round of doing nothing to get winded like Rogers.
I also love that Lesnar should chase Fedor for a fight. If Fedor doesn't fight Lesnar, oh well -- he doesn't get his second loss. Too bad. I wouldn't want to go out a loser either. I'd rather fight unknowns like Rogers and steroid ing re s like Overeem. That's the difference between Rogers and Carwin. They may have fought similar people, but one is known and the other isn't. It's the same way in boxing you poor idiot. It's your promoter, your style, your look, etc. The UFC is where it is at. He legacy is cemented in hardcore fans' minds, but that is about it. If you can't understand the simple truths in life, I feel sorry for you.
Who said Lesnar's resume is better in this thread? No ONE. Read. Lesnar is the ing champion of the UFC. I'm sorry if you don't understand why the fight should happen.
Oh I see. Fedor shouldn't fight anyone, anymore. Because, who has anyone else fought that even comapres to Fedor? I got you!
I mean why fight the guys that everyone knows to be the top guys that are currently known to the masses. Let Fedor fight people nobody knows!
That is such a good idea. Please, come up with some more good ideas. I like these! You're smart.
You were pretty close...
"The Strikeforce headliner and final fight of CBS' fourth over-the-air MMA broadcast drew 5.46 million viewers between 11:00 and 11:15 p.m., according to CBS figures released Tuesday."
I respect Fedor and what he has done. His accomplishments are great and he is one of the greatest heavyweight fighters of all time.
Which is why I don’t know what to think about his fight against Rogers? I’m I supposed to be impressed? I look at Fedor’s record and I see, at the most, 10 good quality victories but I also see 20 cans.
I guess that’s why I respect guys like Couture more. His record is 16-10, it’s not mind blowing awesome but look at his last 20 fights or so and the weakest opponent is Mike Van Arsdale. Outside of Mike everyone was either the champion or a contender to be champion.
Fedor on the other hand after he won the pride championship in 2003 fought 12 more times in pride and only defended his belt 3 times!
Let me know if a Fedor led PPV has 1 million buys, let alone greater than 300k.You were pretty close...
"The Strikeforce headliner and final fight of CBS' fourth over-the-air MMA broadcast drew 5.46 million viewers between 11:00 and 11:15 p.m., according to CBS figures released Tuesday."
Oh..
EliteXC: Primetime Ratings
9 p.m. – Viewers: 3.38m
9:30 p.m. – Viewers: 3.66m
10 p.m. – Viewers: 4.68m
10:30 p.m. – Viewers: 5.53m
11 p.m. – Viewers: 5.84m
11:30 p.m. – Viewers: 6.51m
They wouldnt do any better if they got their nose broken at the start of the fight and had trouble breathing for the rest of fight. People dont realize that the broken nose is what made that fight seem more compe ive than it would have been. Having to breathe through your mouth while blood is filling your nasal passages and dripping down your throat is tough... just as Gonzaga during Couture fight. Fedor was uncomfortable in first round because of the bleeding... didnt any notice Fedor playing with the cut while he was on his back (sort of forgetting about Rogers for a while).. this is what preceded to that GnP flurry by Rogers.
Joe Rogan
Edited: 11/10/09 9:23 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 4372
I made a short twitter message about the Fedor Rogers fight, and I got a lot of feedback from it, so I thought I should elaborate when I got some free time.
What I said in the message was that I thought Fedor got exposed a bit.
What was going through my mind after the fight before I wrote that tweet, was that I was surprised that Rogers was able to easily reverse Fedor, despite the fact that he's not a very experienced grappler. The conventional wisdom was that if Fedor could get the fight to the ground he would be able to finish it quickly, but obviously that wasn't the case.
Rogers wasn't able to hold Fedor down and only landed a few clean shots, but I couldn't help wonder what Lesnar would have been able to do with that position.
I think part of Rogers' success there lays in that he's very powerful and athletic, and also that he's just such a huge guy. At 230lbs I absolutely believe that Fedor is the very best in the world, but at 265 I'm not sure if that weight difference is not too much of a disadvantage. For sure he's one of the top 3 pound for pound fighters in the world, and determining who is number 1 is really just a matter of opinion and speculation. The truly amazing thing about Fedor is that he has gone through his career as a heavyweight undefeated except for one cut, yet he could easily fight at 205 or possibly even at 185 if he really wanted to get crazy. That just shows you what a special fighter he is.
At heavyweight when guys like Lesnar or Rogers get up as big as 265 at the weigh in and maybe 20lbs over that during fight time I really wonder if these gigantic super athletic guys with better grappling like Brock might be able to exploit that size advantage where Rogers couldn't.
I've always been, and continue to be a huge fan of Fedor. I love his style, I love his no frills approach to training, and I love his emotionless approach to combat.
Objectively though, I think there are some exploitable holes in his striking that we saw a little in the Arlovski fight, and the size disadvantage he has against the best big men might be a big problem if they were to meet as well.
He's not perfect, but he sure is fun as to watch.
When I think about the best pound for pound fighters in the sport I think of Anderson, GSP, Fedor and BJ. The guy who has been impressing me the most lately is really GSP for his ability to neutralize really dangerous guys like Thiago Alves and Jon Fitch. Sure, he's made mistakes and lost in the past, but I think that might be one of the things that make him so good. He's learned from his mistakes and adjusted and improved. His ability to implement the perfect game plan is the best, in my opinion.
Anderson impresses me the most with his spectacular finishes, and his beautiful technical striking. With Fedor it's his ability to rag doll bigger guys like Rogers and land brutal bombs on guys like Arlovski, Tim and Brett and just the sheer savagery of his aggression.
Really I would love to see Fedor fight anyone in the UFC, but if I had my choice I would want to see him fight Anderson over Brock. I think they are much closer in weight, and I think it could be an incredible fight.
The UFC pays me, and it's an honor to work for them, but I am and always will be a fan of all mixed martial arts. I watch it all, including all the HDNET fights, K-1, boxing, etc.
I have never been told to alter my opinions, and if it comes out of my mouth whether you agree with it or not, it's my opinion and not the talking points of my employers. There was a lot of talk after my twitter post, and I just wanted to clear things up as much as possible.
A lot can be lost in 140 characters. In the future I'll try to avoid confusing comments like that without elaborating on what I meant.
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=...1&page=1&pc=23
I like Rogan and id warm up to him a lot more when he finally learns how to wear a ing suit and realizes no one wants to see his chest hair.
^ ^
Rogan's solid.
Has anyone heard if that Rogan-Snipes fight is actually gonna happen?
yea all you do here on this board is to insult people, call them idiots and throw bull statments.
nice
as other p4p fighters are fighting the guys close to their weight Fedor also must to face lbs difference.
Also when you look at the fight again it seems like Fedor was in controll more then you saw it at the first time.
btw. It's a big IF thinking that lesnar would have fedor in the same position as Rogers had. all in all fedor knew what he can let go. and it was always the case in his fights
oligarchy speach
You just can't read ing english. I didn't say about Lesnar's record, which you brought up like I said it. Learn to ing read. I don't give a if you got your panties in a wad.
Bull statements? I say my opinion, just like you say yours, but I don't interject statements that you didn't make. I didn't make up some statement to be sarcastic about that you didn't make, which you did by pretending I say Lesnar's record is impressive and the guy's he has fought. If you don't agree with the OPINION doesn't make it a bull statement.
Yeah.. a real big IF that Lesnar could get Fedor down. Thanks.
Actually your statements are pretty re ed. Fedor eats too many cupcakes to lower his weight class? Most ignorant statement I've heard about Fedor in 2009. Good job bro.
I'm sorry i was under the impression the UFC is the best MMA organization in the world. So why would the supposed best MMA fighter in the world not be fighting there and need other fighters that are in the best MMA company to chase him?? If you are the best you fight the best your whole career. Not half your career or 70% of your career, your whole career.. The best heavies in the world are clearly in the UFC.. But Fedor isn't..
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