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[hope4dopes]

MEXICO CITY, Jun 6, 2001

Workers in Mexico's manufacturing sector on average during March were paid 2.30 dollars per hour, government statistics agency INEGI said. By comparison, said INEGI, factory workers in Chile earned an average 2.00 dollars per hours; in France, 6.70 dollars per hour; and in the United States, 14.70 dollars per hour.



There are over one billion people on this planet that make less than 1 dollar a day. What you wanna a bet if I took a boatload of them over to Mexico, and offered them half what these mexicans make I could empty the mexicans outta those factories.

[hope4dopes]

If we could trade Mexico 1 for 1 a hard working Mexican for a lazy social wealfare sucking American, I'm game. However, until we put our unemployed able bodied people to work first, I want illegal immigration stopped. If we need more workers, then give them work visas.

If we're going to sell citizenship like a , I think we can do better than mexicans, we need to shop around. I'm sure we can get cheaper labor,harder work, and people that would feel more grateful rather than en iled.

[hope4dopes]

you are such an idiot..

george shouldn't you be in a corner playing with a dead puppy or something.

[rjv]

Whitebread doesn't refer to someone skin tone, it refers to a limited range of experince. your ignorant and broad assesment of the hardships of the american worker show a total ignorance of them and their lives. Like a schoolboy looking through the bars of the cages at a zoo.

By the way I thought it was you who said productivity was falling.


And so illegal aliens flooding the labor market drives up the workers access to capital how?



Nice simpering fop speech.

you went from stating that illegals allowing cheap labor allows and low wages to thrive enables the bourgeoisie to perpetuate the exploitation of surfs to then saying that americans are experiencing hardships.

you are holding on to some myth that the labor market most affected by illegal immigrants is the one that would open up in the absence of such a labor force. or that wages would increase. but your own anthem to the american laborer demonstrated that low wages are a part of the economic niche thriving in our neoliberal economy. yet your blaming illegals as opposed to corporate america. and then you pretend to champion the american laborer in the process. what a farce ! hating on mexicans and marking them as your pariah for the social ill de jour does not make you an advocate for the american workforce. it makes you yet another gullable apostle for our out of control corporate sector.

you may actually want to read comments as well. i never said productivity was falling. i said that american productivity is not efficient.

the average worker admits to frittering away 2.09 hours per day, not counting lunch and scheduled break time. that's far more time than the roughly one hour per day employers expect the average employee to waste. the extra unproductive time adds up to $759 billion annually in salaries for which companies get no apparent benefit.

but american productivity (increased by 9.5 % in the third quarter) is up because companies are cutting hours and jobs (and no, these are not the picking blueberries in the fields or pouring tar on the roads jobs). our effective unemployment rate is at 19.18 %

[rjv]

If we're going to sell citizenship like a , I think we can do better than mexicans, we need to shop around. I'm sure we can get cheaper labor,harder work, and people that would feel more grateful rather than en iled.

So this is what leftist have to offer to the American worker huh. Either take the share of the nation's wealth we deem fair or we'll just starts boating cheap labor up north......Hey thanks, but I think the American worker can do without you.

[hope4dopes]

Can you say sarcasm

[hope4dopes]

you went from stating that illegals allowing cheap labor allows and low wages to thrive enables the bourgeoisie to perpetuate the exploitation of surfs to then saying that americans are experiencing hardships.

you are holding on to some myth that the labor market most affected by illegal immigrants is the one that would open up in the absence of such a labor force. or that wages would increase. but your own anthem to the american laborer demonstrated that low wages are a part of the economic niche thriving in our neoliberal economy. yet your blaming illegals as opposed to corporate america. and then you pretend to champion the american laborer in the process. what a farce ! hating on mexicans and marking them as your pariah for the social ill de jour does not make you an advocate for the american workforce. it makes you yet another gullable apostle for our out of control corporate sector.

you may actually want to read comments as well. i never said productivity was falling. i said that american productivity is not efficient.

the average worker admits to frittering away 2.09 hours per day, not counting lunch and scheduled break time. that's far more time than the roughly one hour per day employers expect the average employee to waste. the extra unproductive time adds up to $759 billion annually in salaries for which companies get no apparent benefit.

but american productivity (increased by 9.5 % in the third quarter) is up because companies are cutting hours and jobs (and no, these are not the picking blueberries in the fields or pouring tar on the roads jobs). our effective unemployment rate is at 19.18 %

Wow what a whole lotta fluff and nothing said.
A generation ago tradesmen were middle class. The American youth aren't stupid as they see the goverment give trades jobs away to illegals and the wages and benifiets fall, they aren't going to do those jobs, because there is not future there. If the goverment upheld those laws the buregouise would have to pay a living wage for those jobs, then American kids would feel safe entering into them.That's why unions have the term scabs.Scabs were able to negate the power of organized labor.

Once again the same old line. Over and over I place the blame on buregiouse and the rich you just don't wanna hear it, but I also place it on the Mexican goverment and the mexican people themselves.Demanding that the people of the nation have a right to determine and write their own laws, and trying to preserve a quality of life for their children is not "hating on mexicans". Rather it is hating on Americans to ignore the American peoples wishes, and attack them with slurs of racisim because they don't wish to carry the burden of the Mexican goverments responsiblities.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow what a whole lotta fluff and nothing said.

Not street enough for micca of da streets.

[hope4dopes]

Not street enough for micca of da streets.

trolling chimp?

[ChumpDumper]

trolling chimp?

Whining, micca of da streets?

[hope4dopes]

change bait or throw a lure.

[ChumpDumper]

I think the most of the posting here is a perfect representation of rjv's inefficient productivity argument.

[hope4dopes]

hhhhhmmmm......I'd a gone with A Panther Martin but it's your rig.

[rjv]

Wow what a whole lotta fluff and nothing said.
A generation ago tradesmen were middle class. The American youth aren't stupid as they see the goverment give trades jobs away to illegals and the wages and benifiets fall, they aren't going to do those jobs, because there is not future there. If the goverment upheld those laws the buregouise would have to pay a living wage for those jobs, then American kids would feel safe entering into them.That's why unions have the term scabs.Scabs were able to negate the power of organized labor.

Once again the same old line. Over and over I place the blame on buregiouse and the rich you just don't wanna hear it, but I also place it on the Mexican goverment and the mexican people themselves.Demanding that the people of the nation have a right to determine and write their own laws, and trying to preserve a quality of life for their children is not "hating on mexicans". Rather it is hating on Americans to ignore the American peoples wishes, and attack them with slurs of racisim because they don't wish to carry the burden of the Mexican goverments responsiblities.

you say you blame the bourgeoisie and "rich" and yet your arguments support their policies. NAFTA was the impetus for large migrationary trends from mexico over the past 2 decades(one-sixth of the Mexican agricultural work force has been displaced in the NAFTA years, a process that is continuing, depressing wages in other sectors of the economy and impelling emigration to the United States) and before that, civil wars caused in central america resulting in large numbers of el salvadorians, nicaraguans and guatemalans fleeing over from their respective nations into mexico (and eventually into the US). these civil wars were US backed wars benefitting the corporate interests of the US which could only thrive with the existence of US friendly governments in place. (we have not even discussed the disastrous bracero programs or the effects of the guadalupe-hidalgo treaty and their impact on the earliest trends of mexican immigration).


then you falsely assign the jobs given to most illegals as trade jobs (of course, you do have a track record of posting absolute lies when it comes to mexican illegals). i was not aware that bussing tables, dishwashing, migrant work, and hotel jobs were trades jobs and in the construction industry the trade jobs are dominated by native born citizens. the illegals are the roofers, insulation installers, and worksite helpers, mostly competing for work and wages among themselves.

The Immigration Policy Center (IPC) released the third and final installment of a three-part report, Untying the Knot. The final report, by Rob Paral and Associates, reveals that unemployed natives and employed recent immigrants cannot simply be “swapped” for one another since unemployed natives and employed immigrants tend to have different levels of education, live in different parts of the country, and have experience in different occupations and different levels of work experience. The report also shows that immigrants tend to fit into the labor force in areas where there are insufficient numbers of comparable native workers. In other words, removing immigrants would not automatically lead to job openings for natives. (http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/spe...ployed-natives )

as to the other nonsense, well what can i say. i don't even know where calling americans racist came from. perhaps just another fallacy to throw out there i suppose.

[rjv]

I think the most of the posting here is a perfect representation of rjv's inefficient productivity argument.

i just assumed he didn't have a job. perhaps an illegal took his job as a systems analyst or actuary away from him. damn those meskins !!!

[ChumpDumper]

i just assumed he didn't have a job.

[hope4dopes]

you say you blame the bourgeoisie and "rich" and yet your arguments support their policies. NAFTA was the impetus for large migrationary trends from mexico over the past 2 decades(one-sixth of the Mexican agricultural work force has been displaced in the NAFTA years, a process that is continuing, depressing wages in other sectors of the economy and impelling emigration to the United States) and before that, civil wars caused in central america resulting in large numbers of el salvadorians, nicaraguans and guatemalans fleeing over from their respective nations into mexico (and eventually into the US). these civil wars were US backed wars benefitting the corporate interests of the US which could only thrive with the existence of US friendly governments in place. (we have not even discussed the disastrous bracero programs or the effects of the guadalupe-hidalgo treaty and their impact on the earliest trends of mexican immigration).


then you falsely assign the jobs given to most illegals as trade jobs (of course, you do have a track record of posting absolute lies when it comes to mexican illegals). i was not aware that bussing tables, dishwashing, migrant work, and hotel jobs were trades jobs and in the construction industry the trade jobs are dominated by native born citizens. the illegals are the roofers, insulation installers, and worksite helpers, mostly competing for work and wages among themselves.

The Immigration Policy Center (IPC) released the third and final installment of a three-part report, Untying the Knot. The final report, by Rob Paral and Associates, reveals that unemployed natives and employed recent immigrants cannot simply be “swapped” for one another since unemployed natives and employed immigrants tend to have different levels of education, live in different parts of the country, and have experience in different occupations and different levels of work experience. The report also shows that immigrants tend to fit into the labor force in areas where there are insufficient numbers of comparable native workers. In other words, removing immigrants would not automatically lead to job openings for natives. (http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/spe...ployed-natives )

as to the other nonsense, well what can i say. i don't even know where calling americans racist came from. perhaps just another fallacy to throw out there i suppose.

hhhhhhmmmmm. the" immigration policy center" impressive. let's take a look under the mask shall weeeeeeee.


Wendy Sefsaf, Communications Manager
Wendy Sefsaf is the Communications Manager at the Immigration Policy Center. Prior to joining IPC, Ms. Sefsaf served as Director of Development at New America Media, after having worked at the Open Society Ins ute, and public radio station WAMU as the Manager of Foundation Relations and Public Information. Ms. Sefsaf has spent much of her career in the non-profit world including with The California Hispanic Commission on Alcohol and Drug Abuse in East Los Angeles and The Young Adult Ins ute and Latino Worker’s Center in New York City.Ms. Sefsaf received her M.A. in Public Communication from the American University in Washington D.C. and she holds a B.A. in Liberal Arts from the New School University in New York.
[email protected]

Michele Waslin, Senior Policy Analyst
Michele Waslin, Ph.D., is the Senior Policy Analyst at the Immigration Policy Center. She has authored several publications on immigration policy and post-9/11 immigration issues. Ms. Waslin appears regularly in English and Spanish-language media. Previously, she worked as Director of Immigration Policy Research at the National Council of La Raza (NCLR) and Policy Coordinator at the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights. She received her Ph.D. in 2002 in Government and International Studies from the University of Notre Dame, and holds an M.A. in International Relations from the University of Chicago and a B.A. in Political Science from Creighton University.
[email protected]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, A fine collection of poverty pimps...La Raza? please.

Please point out where I supported NAFTA, you can't ,because I never have, supported that piece of treachery that Bill Clinton signed.I would like nothing more than see the repeal of something that brings more poverty to both sides of the border.

By the way Mexico makes central americans very unwelcomed there, they have no desire to share the remittance that makes up the second largest source of cash for Mexico's economy.Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why Mexico uses such Draconian immigration laws against these poor folks.
If you're interested in treaties you may wanna glance over how Mexico accquired Chiapas.

All that you dug up, all those tears shed and not one ing word,not one mind you of the crushing pressure of the Mexican goverment on it's own people . Not a peep about military sweeps through Chiapas murdering people just the same old chicken litany about whitey.

[panic giraffe]

Well that is a solution has already been offered by La Mecha, and Atzlan rising, and I really suggest Americans give it a real good look, I'm sure it would help us come up with a solution to the illegal problem.

I've absolutely have zero interest in providing for them, none what so ever. I wish them the best, and hope the vision they have for their homeland is realized.However it's not my problem. I'm more interested in using the wealth, and energy of the nation working toward the well being of my country, her people, and her future generations.

I'm simply purposing we use Mexico's own immigration policy toward her citizens that are in this nation illegally. Or are you suggesting(which I know you'd never do)
that Mexico's immigration policy is xenophobic?Please explain to me why you feel it's right that Mexico and Mexicans demand a treatment that they have never, nor are now willing to extend to aliens in Mexico.

what the is "la mecha" and "atzlan rising" sheesh if you're gonna be a bigot, at the very least get the names of the organizations right, or better yet, the right organizations.

how in the , do you, yourself provide for illegal immigrants? do you own a home depot? or some sort of warehouse or a apartment complex where you give free rent?

illegals are the backbone of this nation, i challenge you to show me your ancestors do ents.

they pay taxes(sales, prop, gas, etc) and have no way of claiming any of that tax money back, so in essence they're building our roads, both physically and financially and only getting a meager wage in return, with the promise of a better life for their next generation. a win for all. if any native born American thinks an illegal immigrant will take their job, they need to get a better education and move up the totem pole.

[Wild Cobra]

If we're going to sell citizenship like a , I think we can do better than mexicans, we need to shop around. I'm sure we can get cheaper labor,harder work, and people that would feel more grateful rather than en iled.

Price wasn't my concern. The point many advocates come back to and argue is that immigrants are doing the jobs Americans don't want. Therefore, if Americans don't want to work the jobs available to them, I say trade them for someone who wants that job.

Goodbye wealfare!

[rjv]

hhhhhhmmmmm. the" immigration policy center" impressive. let's take a look under the mask shall weeeeeeee.


Wendy Sefsaf, Communications Manager
Wendy Sefsaf is the Communications Manager at the Immigration Policy Center. Prior to joining IPC, Ms. Sefsaf served as Director of Development at New America Media, after having worked at the Open Society Ins ute, and public radio station WAMU as the Manager of Foundation Relations and Public Information. Ms. Sefsaf has spent much of her career in the non-profit world including with The California Hispanic Commission on Alcohol and Drug Abuse in East Los Angeles and The Young Adult Ins ute and Latino Worker’s Center in New York City.Ms. Sefsaf received her M.A. in Public Communication from the American University in Washington D.C. and she holds a B.A. in Liberal Arts from the New School University in New York.
[email protected]

Michele Waslin, Senior Policy Analyst
Michele Waslin, Ph.D., is the Senior Policy Analyst at the Immigration Policy Center. She has authored several publications on immigration policy and post-9/11 immigration issues. Ms. Waslin appears regularly in English and Spanish-language media. Previously, she worked as Director of Immigration Policy Research at the National Council of La Raza (NCLR) and Policy Coordinator at the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights. She received her Ph.D. in 2002 in Government and International Studies from the University of Notre Dame, and holds an M.A. in International Relations from the University of Chicago and a B.A. in Political Science from Creighton University.
[email protected]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, A fine collection of poverty pimps...La Raza? please.

Please point out where I supported NAFTA, you can't ,because I never have, supported that piece of treachery that Bill Clinton signed.I would like nothing more than see the repeal of something that brings more poverty to both sides of the border.

By the way Mexico makes central americans very unwelcomed there, they have no desire to share the remittance that makes up the second largest source of cash for Mexico's economy.Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why Mexico uses such Draconian immigration laws against these poor folks.
If you're interested in treaties you may wanna glance over how Mexico accquired Chiapas.

All that you dug up, all those tears shed and not one ing word,not one mind you of the crushing pressure of the Mexican goverment on it's own people . Not a peep about military sweeps through Chiapas murdering people just the same old chicken litany about whitey.

.4.2008
Latino Labor Report, 2008: Construction Reverses Job Growth for Latinos

by Rakesh Kochhar, Associate Director for Research, Pew Hispanic Center
Report Materials

Complete Report
Transcript
Other Resources


Due mainly to a slump in the construction industry, the unemployment rate for Hispanics in the U.S. rose to 6.5% in the first quarter of 2008, well above the 4.7% rate for all non-Hispanics. As recently as the end of 2006, the gap between those two rates had shrunk to an historic low of 0.5 percentage points--4.9% for Latinos compared with 4.4% for non-Latinos, on a seasonally adjusted basis.1

The e in Hispanic unemployment has hit immigrants especially hard. Their unemployment rate was 7.5% in the first quarter of this year,2 marking the first time since 2003 that a higher percentage of foreign-born Latinos was unemployed than native-born Latinos. Some 52.5% of working age Latinos (ages 16 and older) are immigrants. Latinos make up 14.2% of the U.S. labor force.
Despite the disproportionate impact that the economic slowdown has had on immigrant Latino workers, there are no signs that they are leaving the U.S. labor market. Their labor force participation rate--that is, the percentage of the immigrant working-age Latino population either employed or actively seeking employment--has remained steady. However, they now play a smaller role in the growth of the Hispanic workforce than in recent years.

The latest trends in the labor market represent a dramatic reversal for Latino workers. Hispanics lost nearly 250,000 jobs over the past year because of the recent slump in the construction sector. For several years, construction was the mainstay of job growth for Hispanic workers, especially those who are immigrants. Even as home building stumbled in 2006, Hispanics found nearly 300,000 new jobs in the construction industry from the first quarter of 2006 to the first quarter of 2007. The ongoing slump in construction over the past year has wiped out those gains, virtually in their entirety.
Mexican immigrants have suffered the effects of the construction downturn most keenly. Latino workers who exited construction in 2007 included about 221,000 immigrants. Some 152,000 of those workers had migrated from Mexico. Latino immigrants who entered the U.S. in 2000 or later (from any country) lost 69,000 jobs in construction. For each of these groups of immigrants the jobs lost in construction accounted for the majority of losses from the first quarters of 2007 to the first quarter of 2008.
Labor market outcomes for Hispanic women appear to be worse than for men during 2007. They left the labor force in greater proportion and experienced greater increases in unemployment than did Hispanic men. Some 130,000 more Latino women became unemployed in 2007, and their unemployment rate increased from 5.6% to 7.0%.
Weekly earnings for most groups of Hispanic workers also slipped backward in the past year. Again, Latino construction workers suffered most from the decline in wages. Their earnings tumbled in 2007 and they now earn less than they did two years ago in the first quarter of 2006.
These findings emerge from the Pew Hispanic Center's analysis of the latest data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and Census Bureau. Most of the data are from the Current Population Survey, a monthly Census Bureau survey of approximately 60,000 households. Data from three monthly surveys were combined to create larger sample sizes and to conduct the analysis on a quarterly basis.
________________________
1The estimates for Hispanics in this paragraph are from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Estimates for non-Hispanics are derived by the Pew Hispanic Center from BLS data for all workers and Hispanic workers. Both are seasonally-adjusted.

these samples match to what the IPC research indicates but i suppose you'll find a way to apply an argument ad hominem to an agency as well.

and yes, the mexican government is cupable as well. they bent over for NAFTA (which was just an extension of the neoliberal economic policies that started with carter and took off with reagan and have continued on since then when it comes to international trade). they also had a heavy hand when it came to the chiapas uprising. so, what is your point? i never said that the mexican government was not culpable. i stated that the root of our illegal immigration woes is corporate america. , the mexican government is corporate america and has been since portfirio diaz. technocrat after technocrat has opened up mexico's resources to foreign investment and especially the US.

but it seems as if you are conceding that: the free enterprise system is responsible for holding millions of people in poverty and exploitation and that only the working class on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border has the power to bring the system to its knees. if so, more power to you and mecha and the council of la raza unida are with you !

[hope4dopes]

what the is "la mecha" and "atzlan rising" sheesh if you're gonna be a bigot, at the very least get the names of the organizations right, or better yet, the right organizations.

how in the , do you, yourself provide for illegal immigrants? do you own a home depot? or some sort of warehouse or a apartment complex where you give free rent?

illegals are the backbone of this nation, i challenge you to show me your ancestors do ents.

they pay taxes(sales, prop, gas, etc) and have no way of claiming any of that tax money back, so in essence they're building our roads, both physically and financially and only getting a meager wage in return, with the promise of a better life for their next generation. a win for all. if any native born American thinks an illegal immigrant will take their job, they need to get a better education and move up the totem pole.

What kind of idotic rant are you on ...take a deep breath...Illegals are the backbone of the nation.... are you on drugs you putz? This nation wasn't built by Mexicans.

If illegals are the backbone of the nation you can please explain why Mexico is the absolute hole that it is where half of northeren Mexico has become a shooting gallery.
Please illegals don't come close to paying into the tax pool what they take out.

('if any native born American thinks an illegal immigrant will take their job, they need to get a better education and move up the totem pole.')

So by this I take it that you think we should take Mexico as a model and have a class of serfs, and when they won't work cheap enough for the fat and rich will just open the door till they're desperate enough to fight for crumbs.

All americans provide for illegals by having the social services and schools and hospitals the nation has created gutted by them.


And please, please if unfettered movements of masses is such a boon to the nation please explain to me why Mexico has and enforces such harsh immigration laws.

[hope4dopes]

Price wasn't my concern. The point many advocates come back to and argue is that immigrants are doing the jobs Americans don't want. Therefore, if Americans don't want to work the jobs available to them, I say trade them for someone who wants that job.

Goodbye wealfare!

and what do you call the bussiness class buying our poiticians out not to enforce immigration laws, and therefore providing illegal cheap labor, anything else but welfare for the rich.

[panic giraffe]

What kind of idotic rant are you on ...take a deep breath...Illegals are the backbone of the nation.... are you on drugs you putz? This nation wasn't built by Mexicans.

If illegals are the backbone of the nation you can please explain why Mexico is the absolute hole that it is where half of northeren Mexico has become a shooting gallery.
Please illegals don't come close to paying into the tax pool what they take out.

('if any native born American thinks an illegal immigrant will take their job, they need to get a better education and move up the totem pole.')

So by this I take it that you think we should take Mexico as a model and have a class of serfs, and when they won't work cheap enough for the fat and rich will just open the door till they're desperate enough to fight for crumbs.

All americans provide for illegals by having the social services and schools and hospitals the nation has created gutted by them.


And please, please if unfettered movements of masses is such a boon to the nation please explain to me why Mexico has and enforces such harsh immigration laws.

don't let your racism against mexicans show too much, ok?

i mean, where in that "rant" did i even mention mexico by name? watch too much dobbs, eh?

i said illegal immigrants, and if you think that it was native born americans who built our railroads, toiled during the industrial age in sweatshops, picked our crops, etc, then you really must have slept during history class, or at least too busy jerkin off to mein kampf to pay attention to how this country was built. immigrants made and will remake this country, thats just what happens when you have a country built on a ideal instead of a national iden y, same goes when you have a living do ent as the backbone of you're law and not the bible or koran. this country was based on the theory that you adapt to make your life better, thats all that immigrants want, why do you hate the idea of america so much?

and please give me an example of how an illegal immigrant has taken money from our tax system.

[Wild Cobra]

and what do you call the bussiness class buying our poiticians out not to enforce immigration laws, and therefore providing illegal cheap labor, anything else but welfare for the rich.

Absolutely.

[Wild Cobra]

.4.2008
Latino Labor Report, 2008: Construction Reverses Job Growth for Latinos

by Rakesh Kochhar, Associate Director for Research, Pew Hispanic Center
Report Materials

Complete Report
Transcript
Other Resources

I'm not concerned about legal immigrants, and I didn't see your quoted material distingush between legal and illegal hispanics.

I don't care where they are from. I want illegal immigration to be stopped.