The difference between Mc Viegh and Hasan.

[hope4dopes]

I said I want to wait for all of the facts before I calim hasan is a terrorist...comprende?

O.K but with the facts we have at hand now,what makes you define Mc viegh as a terrorist and not Hasan

[George Gervin's Afro]

O.K but with the facts we have at hand now,what makes you define Mc viegh as a terrorist and not Hasan

Mcveigh is a terrorist because one, he killed 168 people and two he wanted to attack the govt over because of his political beliefs..

So if the evidence states that hasan did this to attack the US govt over his political and religious beliefs he is a terrorist as well..

If he snapped then he's a spree killer and not a terrorist.

[hope4dopes]

Mcveigh is a terrorist because one, he killed 168 people and two he wanted to attack the govt over because of his political beliefs..

So if the evidence states that hasan did this to attack the US govt over his political and religious beliefs he is a terrorist as well..

If he snapped then he's a spree killer and not a terrorist.

How do you come to the conclusion that they are different.Mc viegh made comments of dicontent so did Hasan many time, how are they different.

[George Gervin's Afro]

How do you come to the conclusion that they are different.Mc viegh made comments of dicontent so did Hasan many time, how are they different.

What don't you get about wanting to wait to hear all of the facts? McVeigh's issues were well docmneted after the fact so I am going to give mr hasan the same benefit of the doubt until i know all of the facts. how many times do i have to repeat that? The investigatoon on mcveigh took a year? maybe two? and you want me to decide on what fox news reports whether he is the same category that mcveigh is..you can jump the gun. I'll wait to hear the evidence which is what most critical thinking people do when making a decision or accusation.

[FromWayDowntown]

Is that dude who had 11 dead bodies in his house in Cleveland a terrorist?

[hope4dopes]

What don't you get about wanting to wait to hear all of the facts? McVeigh's issues were well docmneted after the fact so I am going to give mr hasan the same benefit of the doubt until i know all of the facts. how many times do i have to repeat that? The investigatoon on mcveigh took a year? maybe two? and you want me to decide on what fox news reports whether he is the same category that mcveigh is..you can jump the gun. I'll wait to hear the evidence which is what most critical thinking people do when making a decision or accusation.

So you'll get back to us in a year or two right.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So you'll get back to us in a year or two right.

yes I'll make my decision once all the facts are in. Glad I could clear that up for you..although it took me repeating myself at least 4 times...

[hope4dopes]

Yeah you cleared it up alright, thanks.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not really sure what difference it makes to define this as an act of terrorism or not. I suppose that in some quarters, defining it as terrorism is a proxy for continuing to vilify Muslims and for pressing onward with the amorphous GWT. At bottom, we're dealing with a situation in which a man, for whatever reason, took it upon himself to kill many and attempt to kill many others. Whether that was terrorism or not seems irrelevant. Whether that was religiously-motivated or not seems irrelevant. I don't think that there are broader views of the world to be taken from characterizing this as terrorism or not.

If we call it terrorism, are we going to invade Killeen to wipe out the terrorists there? Are we going to stifle the religious practices of Muslims in America? Are we going to intern perceived threats on a broad basis because of the act of a single madman -- however he may have been motivated?

[DarrinS]

Is that dude who had 11 dead bodies in his house in Cleveland a terrorist?

No, but McVeigh and Hasan are.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yeah you cleared it up alright, thanks.

do you routinely make decisions without knowing all of the facts?

[Oh, Gee!!]

I think that a major difference in how many of us view the separate acts is the manner in which they were planned and executed. McVeigh spent months planning the attack, getting the materials, and finally committing the act. McVeigh's chosen method (bombing a building) mimics the conventional mode and weaponry of a terrorist attack. The site of the bombing (an office building filled with civilians) mimics the type of place we think of when we think about the typical terrorist attack.


Hasan’s attack has the earmarks of a typical shooting spree: man with gun shoots and kills several of his co-workers. It may have taken him months to plan, or it could have been a spur of the moment type of act. It doesn’t matter which it was, but you would have to admit that the act itself is vastly different than McVeigh’s in the way it was executed, and in the way that it fits into our views (perhaps outdated) on the way terrorist attacks are committed. I am hesitant to say it was a planned terrorist attack, but as more evidence has come to light I am willing to concede that those who are calling it are terrorist attack have a point, something I posted in the other thread a couple of days ago:

You could conclude that the act was an act of terrorism given that:
[A] he commited a dangerous act or crime (mass murder)
[B] against civilians/non-combatants (enlisted men at home, not armed, and not yet deployed for battle)
[C] with the apparent intent to cause a shift in policy (to force the US Army to change its current policy on non-deployment of Muslim enlisted men who like the shooter would ask not to be forced to fight other Muslims).

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think that a major difference in how many of us view the separate acts is the manner in which they were planned and executed. McVeigh spent months planning the attack, getting the materials, and finally committing the act. McVeigh's chosen method (bombing a building) mimics the conventional mode and weaponry of a terrorist attack. The site of the bombing (an office building filled with civilians) mimics the type of place we think of when we think about the typical terrorist attack.


Hasan’s attack has the earmarks of a typical shooting spree: man with gun shoots and kills several of his co-workers. It may have taken him months to plan, or it could have been a spur of the moment type of act. It doesn’t matter which it was, but you would have to admit that the act itself is vastly different than McVeigh’s in the way it was executed, and in the way that it fits into our views (perhaps outdated) on the way terrorist attacks are committed. I am hesitant to say it was a planned terrorist attack, but as more evidence has come to light I am willing to concede that those who are calling it are terrorist attack have a point, something I posted in the other thread a couple of days ago:

The accusers don't need to wait for the evidence they already know..

[DarrinS]

This is obviously a case of vicarious traumatic stress disorder and I will continue to ignore mounting evidence that Hasan was motivated by his extremist Islamic beliefs.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't need to wait for all the facts to make a decision or accusation. I an teaching my kids to never wait until you have heard everything because it's much more fun to latch on to inuendo and partisan pundits

[DarrinS]

I'm still waiting for ANY evidence that suggests he was JUST crazy. If that information is brought forward, I will not ignore it (unlike you).

[boutons_deux]

McVeigh was a right-wing, anti-government terrorist, on the same continuum with Repugs and conservatives who spew hate and venom about all things governmental, with a grievance against government and bombed a govt building, and was not proven to be mentally ill or insane.

Hasan (for Whott, that name makes him a terrorist automatically, like Barack HUSSEIN Obama) we don't have all the info, yet, but it sure sounds like he was mentally unstable, socically isolated, a loner, and attacked by his Army colleagues for his religion and ethnicity, never mind his citizenship.

Hasan risks being handled by the Army as the FBI handled Stephen Hafill.

But I am impressed by the what I've heard about the Army admitting having serious doubts about Hasan, but not having the balls, like so many in the armed services and other professions like medical and legal, to handle a bad/criminal/incompetent performer in their ranks.

[DarkReign]

I'm still waiting for ANY evidence that suggests he was JUST crazy. If that information is brought forward, I will not ignore it (unlike you).

Lets say youre right and that he was motivated for religious reasons, you name the scenario.

What ing difference does it make?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'm still waiting for ANY evidence that suggests he was JUST crazy. If that information is brought forward, I will not ignore it (unlike you).

You may make deicisons beased on knowing 50% of the facts. I choose to wait to have 100% of the facts before I make my decision. That's the difference between you and me.

[ChumpDumper]

Lets say youre right and that he was motivated for religious reasons, you name the scenario.

What ing difference does it make?

Apparently they want Muhammed Ali to be cavity searched every time he goes to the airport.

[doobs]

Lets say youre right and that he was motivated for religious reasons, you name the scenario.

What ing difference does it make?

It could represent a failure of our intelligence and surveillance capabilities. It could also represent a morale-boosting victory for jihadists around the world---one of their own managed to strike us on American soil . . . at a military base!

Knowing what motivated Hasan is important when trying to avoid another such incident in the future. This is all obvious, yes?

[hope4dopes]

Apparently they want Muhammed Ali to be cavity searched every time he goes to the airport.

easy chimp...wait till they take the bait into their mouths.

[ChumpDumper]

It could represent a failure of our intelligence and surveillance capabilities. It could also represent a morale-boosting victory for jihadists around the world---one of their own managed to strike us on American soil . . . at a military base!

So you want the jihadis to have a morale-boosting victory?

Strange.

[doobs]

So you want the jihadis to have a morale-boosting victory?

Strange.

What makes you think I WANT that?

Stupid.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It could represent a failure of our intelligence and surveillance capabilities. It could also represent a morale-boosting victory for jihadists around the world---one of their own managed to strike us on American soil . . . at a military base!

Knowing what motivated Hasan is important when trying to avoid another such incident in the future. This is all obvious, yes?

then why publicly acknowledge it's a terrorist attack? You said it yourself that it would present a morale booster victory fir jihadists around the world.so I asky, why?