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  1. #51
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    I agree.

    I lean left on social issues and right on government scope / economics and I frankly find both parties to be to my distaste. One stands for social conservatism/big government and the other for social liberalism/big government. Everyone loses and power consolidates to the federal gov't with each election cycle.

    The fringe elements of the parties are just not attractive to sane and normal people. Palin is just not a likeable target for anyone outside the right. She is bashed just like Bush was; for perceived incompetence and stupidity. She does a poor job of proving anyone wrong. The GOP must look elsewhere.
    What makes her a far right Falwell social conservative?

  2. #52
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    So a truly true conservative would want to take the phrase off money since it wasn't on there until after the Civil War.
    Nah, because it's a tradition that started after the civil war.

  3. #53
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Nah, because it's a tradition that started after the civil war.
    The tradition before was to not have it. Thanks for being an advocate of change.

  4. #54
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    What makes her a far right Falwell social conservative?
    Her views

  5. #55
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    link?

    Does she want to bring back prayer?

    Does she want to keep gay marriage from being recognzied like BO?

    Does she want to get rid of evolution?

  6. #56
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    The tradition before was to not have it. Thanks for being an advocate of change.
    Wrong, there was never a vote on wether to or not to have it prior to 1860. So there was never a policy against or for it, but instead it was brought and became a tradition after the civil war. According to your criteria, nothing is a tradition unless it was started when civlization began.

    Don't bring in a weak premise.

    In that case the US flag with 50 stars is not traditional since we acquired alaska way later after our independence.

  7. #57
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Wrong, there was never a vote on wether to or not to have it prior to 1860.
    A vote is required to make something a tradition?
    So there was never a policy against or for it, but instead it was brought and became a tradition after the civil war. According to your criteria, nothing is a tradition unless it was started when civlization began.
    So now the new placement is now a tradition which as a traditionalist you must support.

  8. #58
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    link?

    Does she want to bring back prayer?

    Does she want to keep gay marriage from being recognzied like BO?

    Does she want to get rid of evolution?
    Social conservatives express delight at McCain’s pick of Sarah Palin
    By Robert Marus
    Friday, August 29, 2008
    WASHINGTON (ABP) -- John McCain’s surprise Aug. 29 pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice-presidential running mate was met with positive reviews from groups that oppose abortion rights and gay rights.

    “Sen. McCain made an outstanding pick from the choices that were on the table,” said Tony Perkins, president of the Washington-based Family Research Council, in a press statement released shortly after McCain’s pick became public. “Gov. Sarah Palin is an outspoken advocate for pro-family policies that energize social conservatives. She has a record of advancing the culture of life at every opportunity including championing a ban on partial-birth abortion and promoting parental consent for minor abortions.”

    The Idaho Values Alliance -- a conservative Christian group in the state where Palin was born and raised -- released a statement calling the Palin pick “an inspired choice” and noting that she supported, in 1998, one of the first state cons utional amendments banning same-sex marriage.

    Palin, a former mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, was elected governor in 2006 in a contentious primary battle that pitted her against the Republican in bent and, later, a former Democratic governor. She has earned a reputation as a reformer in a state that has been dominated by Republicans in recent years and beset by several political-corruption scandals, including the recent indictment of its long-serving U.S. senator, Ted Stevens (R).

    However, she is also under investigation by the Alaska Legislature for her role in the firing of a former state employee.

    While social issues are rarely election-deciders in libertarian-leaning Alaska, Palin has expressed strong opposition to gay rights. Besides supporting the same-sex-marriage ban, she also said, during her 2006 campaign, that she disapproved a recent Alaska Supreme Court ruling that the state had to provide spousal benefits to same-sex partners of government employees.
    While Palin later signed legislation that enforced the decision, she said she would support a ballot initiative that would effectively overturn the court ruling by banning gay spouses from state benefits.

    “When you can’t even support giving our community the rights to health insurance and pension benefits, it’s a frightening window into where she stands on equality,” said Joe Solmonese, president of the gay-rights group Human Rights Campaign, in a statement denouncing the Palin choice.

    However, at least one moderate GOP group greeted McCain’s decision as a step forward for gays in the party. Log Cabin Republicans President Patrick Sammon released a statement saying Palin is “a mainstream Republican who will unite the party and serve John McCain well as vice president. Gov. Palin is an inclusive Republican who will help Sen. McCain appeal to gay and lesbian voters.”

    Palin has also expressed support for the teaching of alternatives to evolution in public schools. According to the Anchorage Daily News, in response to a question on teaching evolution versus religious theories during a 2006 gubernatorial debate, Palin said, “Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.”

    The Supreme Court has ruled against the teaching of creationism in public schools, and other federal courts have extended that to a ban on teaching “intelligent design,” a newer theory that states life is so complex that it necessitates the existence of an intelligent creative force of some sort.

    Palin later, according to the newspaper, modified her position on public schools’ teaching such theories. “I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class,” she said. “It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."


    http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?opt...3496&Itemid=53


    I can find more if you'd like.

  9. #59
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    So a truly true conservative would want to take the phrase off money since it wasn't on there until after the Civil War.
    Not really. I mean I don't see her advocating a return to slavery either. It's been that way as long as she has been alive and that obviously qualifies her as a conservative based on that whole disposed to preserve existing conditions, part of the definition, which, if you note, is the part that comes immediately after the word conservative in that quote.


    I am surprised no one ever tries to claim it's sacrilegous. In any case that slogan is a popular one on that coin whether you guys like it or not.

  10. #60
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    Also I'd say Sarah probably wants to know just how much that needless change cost the American people. Because that is the kind of girl that she is, and that is also a conservative mindset.


    You guys obviously just don't understand conservative, and obviously Sarah does.


    Bottom line is this...she blows anyone the Republicans can nominate off the map in terms of name recognition and familiarity. And that is not bad.

    By all means keep up the good work.

  11. #61
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Not really. I mean I don't see her advocating a return to slavery either. It's been that way as long as she has been alive and that obviously qualifies her as a conservative based on that whole disposed to preserve existing conditions, part of the definition, which, if you note, is the part that comes immediately after the word conservative in that quote.
    So after a certain amount of change, change is bad.

    Sounds great.

    I am surprised no one ever tries to claim it's sacrilegous.
    Yeah, I read the wiki entry too.

    In any case that slogan is a popular one on that coin whether you guys like it or not.
    Popular = right.

    OK.

  12. #62
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    So after a certain amount of change, change is bad.

    Sounds great. -
    Sounds like an issue between you and the dictionary to me.





    Yeah, I read the wiki entry too.
    Read the wiki entry on what exactly?

  13. #63
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Sounds like an issue between you and the dictionary to me.
    Sounds like you don't want to talk about it anymore.

    Understood.

    Read the wiki entry on what exactly?
    OK, you didn't then.

  14. #64
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    Popular = right.

    OK.
    In a Democracy? Pretty much yeah. That is the underlying principle behind it.

  15. #65
    2nd Verse Same as the 1st Oh, Gee!!'s Avatar
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    Palin: What's the deal with all this "change" going on lately? I mean, really? am I right, folks?

  16. #66
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    Sounds like you don't want to talk about it anymore.

    Understood.

    OK, you didn't then.
    Talk about what? You desire to overlook definitions? What more do you want me to do?

    I don't see her advocating we return to living in caves either, so I guess she's a not a conversative by some definitions....just by most of the non-stupid ones.

  17. #67
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Talk about what? You desire to overlook definitions? What more do you want me to do?
    It fits the definition fine. It's not my fault there is a contradiction inherent in it.

    I don't see her advocating we return to living in caves either, so I guess she's a not a conversative by some definitions....just by most of the non-stupid ones.
    Oh, this coin phrase placement "issue" is definitely stupid. Your slavish agreement with Palin on this pressing issue pretty much proves it.

  18. #68
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    A vote is required to make something a tradition?
    depends.

    So now the new placement is now a tradition which as a traditionalist you must support.
    1860 is new?

    Dang, i must have a brand spanking new car then.

  19. #69
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    I'll argue it this way too...it's been on there longer than it hasn't. That definitely qualifies as traditional.

  20. #70
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    As far as many traditions go, sure.

    Dang, i must have a brand spanking new car then.
    Is it traditional?

  21. #71
    2nd Verse Same as the 1st Oh, Gee!!'s Avatar
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    I'll argue it this way too...it's been on there longer than it hasn't. That definitely qualifies as traditional.
    human beings on earth is not a tradition I guess

  22. #72
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    human beings on earth is not a tradition I guess
    We aren't...this s all relative though.

  23. #73
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I'll argue it this way too...it's been on there longer than it hasn't. That definitely qualifies as traditional.
    But there was a time when it wasn't, so can't have been as good as the previous tradition until it had been there longer. By the same logic, the new placement will be a better tradition once it has been a tradition longer that the previous placement.

    So all anyone needs is patience. It'll be traditional after we're all dead.

  24. #74
    2nd Verse Same as the 1st Oh, Gee!!'s Avatar
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    look at whottt getting all philosophical

  25. #75
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    But there was a time when it wasn't, so can't have been as good as the previous tradition until it had been there longer. By the same logic, the new placement will be a better tradition once it has been a tradition longer that the previous placement.

    So all anyone needs is patience. It'll be traditional after we're all dead.
    So are you saying that MLK day isn't a traditional holiday since at one time it wasn't around?

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