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The sad thing is that both incidents are related: Timmy McV's actions broke the ice on terrorism on US soil. McV's name should be spat upon for all time for the trouble he ultimately caused, beyond the lives he took with his own hands.
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OUR GOALS
to educate Muslims about dangers presented by Islamic religious texts and why Islam must be reformed
to educate non-Muslims about the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. Islamic Religious Fanatics, Radical Muslims, Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists)
to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic Terror
OUR MANIFESTO
Acknowledging mistakes
The majority of the terrorist acts of the last three decades, including the 9/11 attacks, were perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists in the name of Islam. We, as Muslims, find it abhorrent that Islam is used to murder millions of innocent people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
Inconsistencies in the Koran
Unfortunately, Islamic religious texts, including the Koran and the Hadith contain many passages, which call for Islamic domination and incite violence against non-Muslims. It is time to change that. Muslim fundamentalists believe that the Koran is the literal word of Allah. But could Allah, the most Merciful, the most Compassionate, command mass slaughter of people whose only fault is being non-Muslim?
The Koran & the Bible
Many Bible figures from Adam to Jesus (Isa) are considered to be prophets and are respected by Islam. Islamic scholars however believe that both the Old and the New Testament came from God, but that they were corrupted by the Jews and Christians over time. Could it be possible that the Koran itself was corrupted by Muslims over the last thirteen centuries?
The need for reform
Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy. Twenty-first century Muslims have two options: we can continue the barbaric policies of the seventh century perpetuated by Hassan al-Banna, Abdullah Azzam, Yassir Arafat, Ruhollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, etc., leading to a global war between Dar al-Islam (Islamic World) and Dar al-Harb (non-Islamic World), or we can reform Islam to keep our rich cultural heritage and to cleanse our religion from the reviled relics of the past. We, as Muslims who desire to live in harmony with people of other religions, agnostics, and atheists choose the latter option. We can no longer allow Islamic extremists to use our religion as a weapon. We must protect future generations of Muslims from being brainwashed by the Islamic radicals. If we do not stop the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, our children will become homicidal zombies.
Accepting responsibilities
To start the healing process, we must acknowledge evils done by Muslims in the name of Islam and accept responsibility for those evils. We must remove evil passages from Islamic religious texts, so that future generations of Muslims will not be confused by conflicting messages. Our religious message should be loud and clear: Islam is peace; Islam is love; Islam is light. War, murder, violence, divisiveness & discrimination are not Islamic values.
Religious privacy
Religion is the private matter of every individual. Any person should be able to freely practice any religion as long as the practice does not interfere with the local laws, and no person must be forced to practice any religion. Just as people are created equal, there is no one religion that is superior to another. Any set of beliefs that is spread by force is fundamentally immoral; it is no longer a religion, but a political ideology.
Equality
Islam is one of the many of the world's religions. There will be no Peace and Harmony in the World if Muslims and non-Muslims do not have equal rights. Islamic supremacy doctrine is just as repulsive as Aryan supremacy doctrine. History clearly shows what happens to the society whose members consider themselves above other peoples. All moderate Muslims must repudiate the mere notion of Islamic supremacy.
Sharia
Sharia Law must be abolished, because it is incompatible with norms of modern society.
Outdated practices
Any practices that might have been acceptable in the Seventh Century; i.e., stoning, cutting off body parts, marrying and/or having sex with children or animals, must be condemned by every Muslim.
Outdated verses
The following verses promote divisiveness and religious hatred, bigotry and discrimination. They must be either removed from the Koran or declared outdated and invalid, and marked as such.
Outdated words & phrases
Use of the following words and phrases or their variations must be prohibited during religious services:
• Infidel / Unbeliever: these terms have negative connotation and promote divisiveness and animosity; Islam is not the only religion
• Jihad: this word is often interpreted as Holy War against non-Muslims
• Mujaheed / Holy Warrior: no more wars in the name of Islam
• American (Christian / Crusader / Israeli / Zionist) occupation: these terms promote bigotry; at this point in time, Muslims living in non-Muslim lands have more freedoms than Muslims living in Muslim lands
Islam vs. violence
Islam has no place for violence. Any person calling for an act of violence in the name of Islam must be promptly excommunicated. Any grievances must be addressed by lawful authorities. It is the religious and civic duty of every Muslim to unconditionally condemn any act of terrorism perpetrated in the name of Islam. Any Muslim group that has ties to terrorism in any way, shape, or form, must be universally condemned by both religious and secular Muslims.
Portrayal of Prophets
While portrayal of Prophets is not an acceptable practice in Islam could be personally offensive to some Muslims, other religions do not have such restrictions. Therefore, the portrayal of the Prophets must be treated as a manifestation of free expression.
The Crusades vs. The Inquisition
While the Inquisition was a repulsive practice by Christian Fundamentalists, the Crusades were not unprovoked acts of aggression, but rather attempts to recapture formerly Christian lands controlled by Muslims.
Brothers and Sisters!
Do not make the next generation of Muslims clean up your mess!
Fight Islamic Fascism now, so your children won't have to!
If only the radical chic made as much sense, as these MUSLIMS
The sad thing is that both incidents are related: Timmy McV's actions broke the ice on terrorism on US soil. McV's name should be spat upon for all time for the trouble he ultimately caused, beyond the lives he took with his own hands.
Shootings are very rarely considered terrorism for multiple reasons. Terrorism requires a political agenda, a goal of inflicting fear on a national scale, and mass killing. Shootings very rarely capture these points. The U.S. gov't definition of terrorism replaces mass killing with mass destruction/kidnapping, pretty much ruling out all gun violence. This leaves the obvious things -- bombs and hijackings.
A man with a gun isn't an effective way to kill either scores or people or cause widespread fear. For one, the man is easily subdued during the attack. It is defensible. A bomb or hijacking isn't. Secondly, gun violence is common and people aren't driven by it other than on the local level. Gun violence can't hold a government ransom. Bombing million dollar structures can.
It takes a lot for shootings to be considered terrorism. Shooting up an airport, school, or court house is much more likely to be terrorism than shooting your co-workers.
I'm not sure why there is so much surprise over this. Even shootings that cause mass terror usually aren't referred to as terrorist attacks. Anyone born before 2000 should realize what is considered terrorism and what is considered a rampage shooting.
It honestly doesn't even matter unless you are the prosecution and looking for a death sentence.
I was in the midst of typing a response without having read ahead in the thread.
I cant top that.
@ hope4
What obscure, Western blog is that from?
I think you make a lot of good points. Was this an act of terrorism, since it was only one person and he used a firearm and may not have had a political agenda? Maybe not. Was this an act of a jihadist? Was the act not so much to send a political message, but rather to kill as many of his "enemies" as possible? All evidence currently available about this man paints a picture of a jihadist, and not someone suffering from pre-TSD.
* His very vocal view that the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan were wars against Islam.
* His 50-page PowerPoint presentation, "The Koranic World View as it Relates to Muslims in the US Military" when he was supposed to present a medical topic.
* His repeated emails to a radical imam said to have been a "spiritual adviser" to two of the September 11 hijackers
* Give away many of his possessions and may have sent money to Pakistan
* Yelled "Allahu Akbar" before opening fire
The dude sent out many VERY OVERT red flags that shouldn't have been ignored.
What is the evidence that suggests he just suffered from pre-TSD?
What is the evidence that suggests he just suffered from pre-TSD
He shot up a bunch of people with a gun....what other evidence do you need?
True. There is also the possibility that PTSD caused him to have thoughts about martyrdom in something he really believed in....if he were a really devote Christian and shot up a military barrack would he be a terrorists?It takes a lot for shootings to be considered terrorism. Shooting up an airport, school, or court house is much more likely to be terrorism than shooting your co-workers.
If only we had this many warning signs for McViegh that we've had for Hasan. OKC would not have happened. Period.
Yep. WHen some anti-govt loon buys a very large amount of fertilizer, it's time to pay attention.
Terrorism is a planned attack designed to instill fear and terror in its victims hearts and minds. the OKC bombings, the WTC bombings, and all the suicide bombings which have occurred in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Madrid, London, etc...were all planned by groups attempting to force a political goal by causing people to be afraid of the consequences if they don't.
It isn't yet clear that the Hasan attack was terrorism, because it isn't clear whether it was premeditated or whether he was "under stress" (though this obviously seems to be an gross understatement) and opened fire. But as more information comes out, it may turn out that it was, in fact, a premeditated terrorist act.
overt red signs that he was potentially a danger to others, but not necessarily a terrorist.
plenty of people are danger to others but not terrorists.
So if you're stressed out, you can't be a terrorist?
None. Both cold blooded killers.
I agree, but why do we call one a terrorist and not the other.what is it about one we label part of a terrorist movement but the other one a victim of stress.
Might he be a jihadist? Is your keyboard capable of spelling out muslim or jihadist?
So what if he is? Why is that so important to you?
So what makes Mc viegh a terrorist and not Hasan?
He was a Muslim, that's something we already know. Not sure what you mean by calling him a "jihadist" - a jihad is a concept in Islam but a concept which is distorted and overblown by both Muslim extremists and right wing nutbags obsessed with the war on Islam Bush declared.
It seems fairly clear that Hasan was mentally unbalanced, and drawn to a lot of the words and ideas of Muslim extremists. But that doesn't mean he was working with them, in fact I thought I saw something in one story about him being rejected by a Muslim extremist group.
Again, let's be clear, the only useful way to have a term like "terrorism" is to use it when it is appropriate and not whenever we find someone abhorrent and violent.
Hasan may or may not be a terrorist. He was certainly mentally unbalanced, violent, and creepy. And there were ample signs that someone should have been paying closer attention to him and not allowing him to be around weapons.
Him taking the guns with armor piercing rounds, and giving his things away. Saying his goodbyes are all ways that he planned for this.
Can we stop calling it pre-tsd. There is no such thing. Just because someone gets stressed or is nuts doesn't mean they have ptsd of anykind. it lowers it for real people who went through real stressful situations and having real ptsd and not some liberal concoction.
I don't know what this "pre-tsd" thing people are referring to is. You are correct, there is no such diagnosis in the DSM-IV. Although there is a Acute Stress Disorder plenty of people can meet the criteria for this and most of them don't go around shooting people.
Stockpiling weapons and giving his things away are certainly concerning red flags, but not indicative of being a terrorist. They are indicative of someone who was planning to become violent and/or suicidal. But again, plenty of people have become violent and/or suicidal without being terrorists.
This thread is giving me Pre-ED.
He probably just had a bad day and it is pure coincidence that he's muslim and tried to contact a radical imam on numerous occasions.
From now on, any pro-lifer that kills an abortion doctor is just someone who's stressed out.
Peace.
So if you're stressed out, you can't be a terrorist?
FYI: Here's how the US government defines terrorism:
"the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents." http://terrorism.about.com/od/whatis...errorism_5.htm
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