I don't think RJ can play with TP

[Bukefal]

Time, everything is about time. They just need to adjust to eachother, that's normal. We need to give them a break and wait, everything will work out just fine.

[portnoy1]

Time, everything is about time. They just need to adjust to eachother, that's normal. We need to give them a break and wait, everything will work out just fine.

You say time. But time has already shown what to expect. Remember Michael Finley of 04-05 with the Mavs. He was 31 at the time i think. He could shoot the 3 obviously, but he could drive and post and hit midrange pull up jumpers. Immediately once he came to the spurs he became a spot-up shooter that could put the ball on the floor if nessecary. As the seasons with the spurs progressed on he became nothing more than a spot up shooter with additional abilities lost due to non use. RJ is practically the same just not as good a shooter but more athletic. He can drive, post and hit the midrange jumper off the dribble. Sound Familiar? If Pop doesnt take over the playcalling, RJ in a year or 2 will be a s of his former self. Just like a spur Named Finley who we now bash, but at one time were excited to have. Will that be RJ's fate? its up to TP/Pop.

[SA210]

Is it just me or have there been a couple of alley-oop opportunities for RJ that have been overlooked on account of the ball-handlers' unfamiliarity with his predilections???

It's not you. Tony's a ballhog.

[portnoy1]

It's not you. Tony's a ballhog.

He's been that way since he came in the league. People are calling for his head, but thats his game. Iverson and him are similar except Iverson was the man and didnt have to answer to anybody except Larry Brown who was suddenly let go and seen 2 finals appearances including a win. While Iverson seen a frequent first round exit. TP has a hall of fame Center and 2 allstars who can score as much as he does on any given night if they had the ball. Either we have to get use to RJ becoming a spot up shooter or A trade for Parker. Ill take option B but its to late for that now so it looks like RJ is the next Finley 2.0, so lets all enjoy losing to the Lakers in 4 games while TP torches DFish and the other spurs stand and watch and the Lakers sweep us like in 2001.

[spursfan09]

Just too much biased hatred for Parker...

[ElNono]

Just too much biased hatred for Parker...

It's part of every season. Everybody will love him by January.

[Agloco]

The difference between Manu and RJ is that Manu's a deadly 3 point shooter. Although Manu's been a bit off lately, defenders still have to honor his 3. RJ's a decent transition shooter but really not a spot up shooter in a set offense.

Manu + Tony is perfectly fine because Manu stretches the D out to the 3 point line. If you watch guys defending RJ and Tony, they'd prefer to give them the 3 while they back off. With BOTH Tony and RJ's guy backing off, there's even less room for either of them to work in the paint where they're most effective.

Manu's also an excellent passer with excellent vision while both Tony and RJ are only decent playmakers. Tony is a better playmaker than RJ but that's still not saying much. Manu drives to score or make plays 60/40. Tony and RJ drive to score or make plays about 80/20.

With Manu, defenders basically have to butt hug him and still worry about getting taken off the dribble and then worry about him making a play for somebody else.

+1

Great assessment.

[DaBears]

Give them time. Actually Parker is pretty suited to play with RJ because they both like to run and they both can finish. Parker hasn't played with many players that can run with him, so it will take time to adjust.

You say this! but this season we have seen proof of this when..........

Maybe once or twice in in 6 games..

TP is a ball stopper! always has been, but that is what he was suppose to do score... Now that you have more talent on wings he needs to change his game up to allow others to get into rytm...

[rascal]

Give them time. Actually Parker is pretty suited to play with RJ because they both like to run and they both can finish. Parker hasn't played with many players that can run with him, so it will take time to adjust.

Agree. Both can run and finish. Parker needs to not always pull up on the break and stop and pull it back out to the top of the key to setup the offense. This spur team has a sf finisher that they didn't have before.

The days of the team standing around the perimeter and watching one guy take it to the basket is over. The spurs have the athletes now to get more easy baskets off long rebounds and turnovers in transistion. They just have to adjust to play that way more on the offensive side.

[jj1194]

A month from now everyone will be annointing us...

[Morg1411]

Manu and Jefferson played good together. Keep them together.

+1. I like the chemistry there. Maybe they can both play off the bench, and we start Hill at the 2-guard and Bogans at SF.

(Or not. Just shooting off ideas.)

[galvatron3000]

I don't think they mesh well either.

I don't agree about the Dream Team thing though. We could trade for SJax and I think he would fit into the starting lineup a lot better than RJ and play better with Parker as he is a bit better defender than RJ and also can spot up and shot the 3 from TP's passes.

RJ and Manu off the bench would work well too I think. They seem to play well together.

That I agree with. Rj is bred to play with a Nash, Kidd, Paul or Williams type pg. He is a good player to have and not have to run offense through but he needs to have a pg that will get him involved. Jax is a different type Sf altogether and would fit much better with the starters (with Tony) and having Manu and Rj off the bench together with Hill running the point is a great idea.

Looking like:

Duncan
Blair/Dyess
Jackson
Bogans
Parker

Manu
Jefferson
Hill
Ratliff

[Trimble87]

I remember sometime in 08 Bill Plachske (spelling?) said that Tony and Manu coldnt play together on Around the Horn and got drilled for it by the other guys... but I've always felt the same way. Tony is better when manu is on the bench and vice versa. They both need the ball in order to be productive on the offensive side of the ball... Its different with Jefferson, as he isnt a create with the ball player, but I dont think he will mesh well with parkers style either. Jefferson needs a pass first manage the game point to be succesfull. Unless Tony can incorporate more of a mid-range game and becomes more of a facilitator then Jefferson is going to be a spot up shooter/finisher off the fast break. I just dont see it working any other way for him to generate offense except for set plays to get him open/get him to the rim.

That being said I would rather RJ really work on becoming a great defender and move into that spot up shooter/finisher role then have Tony try and change his game. I believe the Spurs are at their best when Tony is being extreamly agressive and driving the lane, he either scores or finds the wide open man for the jumper. Jefferson, correct me if I'm wrong, has never been the number 1 option for his team. And on the Spurs he is the 4th option. So I dont think its necesary to get him more involved in the offense then we need him to be.

That being said through 8 games, even with the seeming lack of cohesion on the offensive end, the offense has not been the problem. We need the guys to start playing better defense... and both Parker and Jefferson could do better on that side of the court.


**let me clarify by saying I love Tony Manu and Jefferson. I think they will get it going and barring injuries our offense and eventually defense will be very good. I just dont think Jefferson is going to be the dominant 20ppg scorer he was in the past. And if he is I dont think thats necesarily a good thing for this team. **

[da_suns_fan]

Manu and Jefferson play well together because Jefferson is a good finisher and Ginobili is a good creator.

Bottom line is Jefferson cant be effective shooting four shots in a game.

But you guys have the best coach in the world (seriously). He'll probably figure it out long before anyone here does.

[Supergirl]

give them time. Actually parker is pretty suited to play with rj because they both like to run and they both can finish. Parker hasn't played with many players that can run with him, so it will take time to adjust.

+1

[Flux451]

Give them time. Actually Parker is pretty suited to play with RJ because they both like to run and they both can finish. Parker hasn't played with many players that can run with him, so it will take time to adjust.

For real doe.
Jeff is just gonna have to keep up with that son of gun.

[rvman21]

RJ only 4 FGA
TP 18 FGA

Tony pass the ing ball, RJ should be the #1 option on offense.

amen brother your exactly right

[#2!]

Manu and Jefferson play well together because Jefferson is a good finisher and Ginobili is a good creator.

Bottom line is Jefferson cant be effective shooting four shots in a game.

But you guys have the best coach in the world (seriously). He'll probably figure it out long before anyone here does.

Holy ...a suns fan is telling spurs fans not to jump off a bridge. and he's right too

But seriously, yes there is a problem w/ the two playing together right now, and yes it is b/c of the style that tony has been forced to play for a couple of seasons (all the offseason talk about TP being our number one option probably doesn't help the ball movement either).

However, with the level of intelligence and unselfishness within the Spurs organization it seems incredibly unlikely that the problem will go unsolved. Do you think Pop didn't notice what we have?

With the depth of our playbook I'm sure that effective plays, or play variations, will be added as the season progresses. In fact, why not take the play in which (previously) Finley ran off of either 1 or 2 screens and caught the ball for a quick shot at the elbow, and instead let RJ cut to the basket from there instead of taking the shot. I'm sure the Spurs can come up w/ something if the people on here can.

[portnoy1]

I remember sometime in 08 Bill Plachske (spelling?) said that Tony and Manu coldnt play together on Around the Horn and got drilled for it by the other guys... but I've always felt the same way. Tony is better when manu is on the bench and vice versa. They both need the ball in order to be productive on the offensive side of the ball... Its different with Jefferson, as he isnt a create with the ball player, but I dont think he will mesh well with parkers style either. Jefferson needs a pass first manage the game point to be succesfull. Unless Tony can incorporate more of a mid-range game and becomes more of a facilitator then Jefferson is going to be a spot up shooter/finisher off the fast break. I just dont see it working any other way for him to generate offense except for set plays to get him open/get him to the rim.

That being said I would rather RJ really work on becoming a great defender and move into that spot up shooter/finisher role then have Tony try and change his game. I believe the Spurs are at their best when Tony is being extreamly agressive and driving the lane, he either scores or finds the wide open man for the jumper. Jefferson, correct me if I'm wrong, has never been the number 1 option for his team. And on the Spurs he is the 4th option. So I dont think its necesary to get him more involved in the offense then we need him to be.

That being said through 8 games, even with the seeming lack of cohesion on the offensive end, the offense has not been the problem. We need the guys to start playing better defense... and both Parker and Jefferson could do better on that side of the court.


**let me clarify by saying I love Tony Manu and Jefferson. I think they will get it going and barring injuries our offense and eventually defense will be very good. I just dont think Jefferson is going to be the dominant 20ppg scorer he was in the past. And if he is I dont think thats necesarily a good thing for this team. **

So in other words the spurs traded a solid rebounder(Thomas) a utility Center(Oberto) and a defensive stopper(Bowen) for a $14million spot up shooter? While at the same time keeping 3 spot up shooters Mason JR./Finley/Bonner who cant provide any of the things that Thomas/Oberto/Bowen provided the team. The front office aint that stupid. Before the trade it was obvious we needed to get younger. We traded 3 old guys who still contributed, just not that much, to get a younger athletic Wing. We still kinda need a bigman but the FO owes RJ $14million. If they really wanted a younger spot up shooter thats athletic they couldve gotten a MUCH MUCH cheaper one. The Spurs have plans for RJ and its not just hit the 3 and D up. Like I said their are cheaper options for that. Battier/Bell and some others. Bottom Line is Parker/Pop are going to have to figure out how to fit RJ in there system. Honestly I just want Pop to start calling plays again and leverage Parkers shoot-first mentality, that way Parker doesnt lose his offensive aggresiveness and the other 4 guys dont suffer because of his lack of court vision.

[ffadicted]

all (most) of this thread, are we already forgetting what parker did for us just a few months ago last season?

The idea of trading parker is as dumb (if not more) then the whole "trade ginobili" over the summer.

[dbestpro]

This thread is actually funny. Half the posts say it will take time, which means they need to play more together, and the other half of the posts are trying to figure out ways to limit RJ and TP playing together.

[ffadicted]

It's not you. Tony's a ballhog.

After spending more then half a decade without anyone on his team that can legitimately receive an alley-oop, it's understandable why Tony's not looking for it right now.

[rasho8]

The difference between Manu and RJ is that Manu's a deadly 3 point shooter. Although Manu's been a bit off lately, defenders still have to honor his 3. RJ's a decent transition shooter but really not a spot up shooter in a set offense.

Manu + Tony is perfectly fine because Manu stretches the D out to the 3 point line. If you watch guys defending RJ and Tony, they'd prefer to give them the 3 while they back off. With BOTH Tony and RJ's guy backing off, there's even less room for either of them to work in the paint where they're most effective.

Manu's also an excellent passer with excellent vision while both Tony and RJ are only decent playmakers. Tony is a better playmaker than RJ but that's still not saying much. Manu drives to score or make plays 60/40. Tony and RJ drive to score or make plays about 80/20.

With Manu, defenders basically have to butt hug him and still worry about getting taken off the dribble and then worry about him making a play for somebody else.

After watch all the games and the bizarre lineups Pop has put in there it makes sense to me (and im not a coach or even a very knowledgeable basketball fan) that we could split our squad in two and it would work well.

Startes:
TD
TP
Manu
McDyess
Mason

Bench:
RJ
Blair
Ratliff
Hill
Boguns

Hill and RJ seem to work good, Blair and Ratliff can rebound well together, if you use Bonner to spread the floor occasionally his three can force a better matchup for RJ by drawing out the PF.

Clearly Manu, Mason, Blair and McDyess can be shifted between the two teams during changes, but TD/TP should be our A team and Hill/RJ our A- team.

Thats just my observation from club 200 this year.

[SequSpur]

just sayin...