Couple arrested for refusing to tip waiter, claim bad service

[Blake]

There's no grounds for a lawsuit here.

I'd like more details about this incident and why exactly the police officer(s) saw the need to arrest the students for not paying a gratuity.

It's been proven in court that not paying a mandatory gratuity is not a punishable offense. Again, I think the cops should have told the owner that this is a civil matter and should be taken up in small claims court.

No law was broken. I think it would not be a very strong false arrest lawsuit, but they might get a settlement out of it.....

Philly had to fork out $180k two years ago after settling out of court for a false arrest claim.

Lee told police the flour-filled condoms were used for stress relief.
A woman who was arrested and jailed for three weeks on drug charges for what turned out to be flour-filled condoms has settled a lawsuit against the city for $180,000.

http://cbs3.com/local/Condom.Flour.Janet.2.306611.html

[angel_luv]

I am a hostess and so have many friends who are servers.

As a patron I don't care for the automatic gratuity. If it is gratuity then I should not be required to give a certain amount.


But working in the restaurant industry I understand why it is necessary.

Recently a party of fifteen came into our establishment and had dinner for free ( gift certificates) and had three servers wait on them, but left no tip.
Granted it could have been an error in communication- i.e. the patrons did not realize that gratuity was not automatically included in their gift certificates. And maybe the company who sent their employees to us just assumed their people would tip.
Regardless, our servers had the majority of their tables taken up for an entire evening, for which they only received their meager server's salary as compensation.


It is because of instances like that, that I favor automatic gratuity for large parties.

I dislike automatic gratuity because some servers do take advantage of it.
But I hate to penalize good servers out of spite for the bad apples out there.

Maybe the answer is to cap automatic gratuity at 10%. That way no server will work for no tip but there is still an incentive for them to provide you excellent service.

[Sancha]

If I ever had to pay at a restaurant then maybe I would know what the you guys are talking about.

[Dex]

1. If the article is correct, the party did report it to the "manager" (bartender in charge). The manager claims that he offered to comp the meal, the party denies that allegation. I'd be inclined to believe the party because who's going to turn down a $73 comp on ty service, to then turn around and skimp on a $16 tip.

2. Regardless of the ethics of not tipping (I'm against it), everything hinges upon the definition of the word "mandatory" here. Is there a law in this area that requires an 18% gratuity? Is there a law that requires the gratuity for groups of 6 or more?

If not, is the "mandatory" gratuity posted anywhere in the establishment? If there is so much as one sign, posting, or asterisk of fine print on the menu that establishes this, then the restaurant has a case. However, if so, they should've just gone ahead and included the mandatory gratuity as part of the bill, as most restaurants often will, and avoided this whole cluster .

[Sportcamper]

Dex- Some upscale restaurants & country clubs have a mandatory tip added to the bill…Hopefully Taco Bell will not start this practice…

[ploto]

Recently a party of fifteen came into our establishment and had dinner for free (gift certificates) and had three servers wait on them, but left no tip.

Granted it could have been an error in communication- i.e. the patrons did not realize that gratuity was not automatically included in their gift certificates. And maybe the company who sent their employees to us just assumed their people would tip.

Do you mean at the AT&T Center? I know some people don't really view it like a normal restaurant and think that when someone gives them certificates to dine there, that it is like someone giving them tickets to their suite.

[angel_luv]

Do you mean at the AT&T Center? I know some people don't really view it like a normal restaurant and think that when someone gives them certificates to dine there, that it is like someone giving them tickets to their suite.

Yes, I do. That is why I stated that I thought the not tipping was accidental, though unfortunate.

Although recently a gentleman who also had his meal comped made it a point to ask me if gratuity was automatically included.
When he found it wasn't, left the server a generous tip out of his own pocket.
I appreciated the guesture. It was very kind and considerate.

I think someone should always ensure that the server gets tipped. If someone is paying for people to dine, they should include the tip for the server in they charges they authorize- in my opinion.

When big parties like the one I first mentioned do not tip, I fault the host not the people who are being treated.

[whottt]

So, what's a good reason not to tip?

If they give you lousy service or are rude.


But here is the catch, food being late. drinks being late, are not automatically the waiter's fault.

If the restaurant is busy, I can almost guarantee you it isn't the waiter's fault.


If it's slow, it probably is.


Generally the only time you can be certain you are in the right in stiffing a waiter is if they are rude. Everything else is cir stantial.

Even if they don't appear at your table as often as you like.

Often if you are a small table and the restaurant is busy and your waiter is not around very much, it's probably because has a large table monopolizing his time.

Based on this, those people were wrong to stiff that waiter....because the manager said they were really busy. It was probably the kitchen's fault their food was late.

Also, most restaurants notify you when the gratu y is being automatically included, they will usually have some notice by the hostess stand or on the menu. Most large parties are notified in advance the gratu y will be included, before they order. I do think it qualifies as theft of service, and since waiters work for under the minimum wage I question the legality of doing it for other reasons as well.

[whottt]

By the way, the reason that restaurant was probably willing to comp part/all of the food is because it was their fault. Those people probably held that waiter accountable for their food being late, and it probably was not his fault. Everyone whose fault it actually was(the cooks, the restaurant), got paid in full, and would have whether the food was comped or not. The waiter who was probably working harder than anyone else in that restaurant, for about $5 an hour, was the only one that got screwed and very likely he did nothing wrong at all.

[ploto]

Even if they don't appear at your table as often as you like.

Often if you are a small table and the restaurant is busy and your waiter is not around very much, it's probably because has a large table monopolizing his time.

Based on this, those people were wrong to stiff that waiter....because the manager said they were really busy.

Too busy to get them silverware or drinks??

If the waiter has so many tables that he can not serve me properly, then I figure he has lots of people tipping him that hour and I don't need to leave him as much. When a place is slow, I tip more because my tip may be just about all they are getting that hour.

[whottt]

Too busy to get them silverware

It's not always the waiter's job to get the silverware, especially when it is busy. Usually it's a buspersons job to do it, or a host. The buspeople make the real minimum wage, plus they get tipped from the wait person from their tips.

It is the waiter's job to take the orders fast, get the drinks fast, and the food fast and the check when they ask for it. Whatever else they ask.

But you have to realize, you are not the only table. And if there is no silverware, if no one puts the food up, or the drinks, the waiter cannot bring them to you. And it's not their fault.

Like I said, the only way to be sure the waiter deserves it, is if it's slow, or if they're rude. If it is busy you have no idea why the delays may be happening. I would be willing to bet that these people did not just see the waitperson standing around doing nothing.

He might very well have been in the kitchen fighting for their food, to get it out quickly. And that happens.

or drinks??

Depends on the types of drinks, if they had mixed drinks then it again probably was not the waiter's fault. If it was just cokes and stuff, it probably was.

If the waiter has so many tables that he can not serve me properly, then I figure he has lots of people tipping him that hour

It might be not be his fault you aren't being served properly, there is no way for you to know that if it's busy unless you just see them standing around doing nothing.


The worst time to expect great service is when it's busy. That is when you are least likely to get it.

and I don't need to leave him as much. When a place is slow, I tip more because my tip may be just about all they are getting that hour.

When it is slow there usually isn't any excuse for poor service.

Anyway, I believe you can tell a lot about someone by the way they treat a waitperson.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Tipping in the US always makes me laugh, especially this "compulsory tip" nonsense. How about you set up a decent minimum wage system so that waiters/waitresses get paid a living wage, and tip only for service that is very good or better? Simplifies things a lot. It's what everyone else in the world does, pretty much...

[MiamiHeat]

By the way, the reason that restaurant was probably willing to comp part/all of the food is because it was their fault. Those people probably held that waiter accountable for their food being late, and it probably was not his fault. Everyone whose fault it actually was(the cooks, the restaurant), got paid in full, and would have whether the food was comped or not. The waiter who was probably working harder than anyone else in that restaurant, for about $5 an hour, was the only one that got screwed and very likely he did nothing wrong at all.

so why didn't the restaurant give their employee 16 bucks from the $73 bill the customers paid?

why bother the customers and arrest them? if they were willing to comp the food, just accept the money from the bill, and just give the waiter $16 from it and call it even.


Why must the $16 come from the customers? they didn't think that through now did they. just "OMFG IM CALLING THE COPS"

[Insomniac]

Something tells me whottt has been a waiter at some time in his life.

[ploto]

Depends on the types of drinks, if they had mixed drinks then it again probably was not the waiter's fault. If it was just cokes and stuff, it probably was.

The article says they got refills for their sodas in the bar themselves. So, first they were not mixed drinks and secondly, the bar was not too busy even to refill sodas.

Yes, when I have gotten bad service, I have at times told the manager that the waiter had too many tables. But then again, I have had people who work in restaurants tell me they want more tables, even when they know they can't serve them properly, because more tables = more tips.

Also, I have seen waiters stand around and do nothing. Or the disappearing guy who I found watching the Spurs game in the bar area when I went to get something out of my car.

[ploto]

so why didn't the restaurant give their employee 16 bucks from the $73 bill the customers paid?

why bother the customers and arrest them? if they were willing to comp the food, just accept the money from the bill, and just give the waiter $16 from it and call it even.

Tells me their claim to comp the bill is bogus.

[velik_m]

Because the restaurant pays the waiter less than the minimum wage and can do that because the waiter receives tips. If they do no recieve tips, the restaurants cannot pay them less than the minimum wage.

How is this a customers problem? If the waiter cannot live with the salary he's getting, he should take it up with his employer or find another job.

People that do not like to tip, should not go to restaurants with waiters in them, you don't belong in them because you do not get it, you belong in a restaurant without waiters, and should take that into account when deciding where you will eat. Restaurants are for people that want service, appreciate it, and are willing to pay for it, they are not for people that don't and aren't.

I never tip. I do pay for service, how the establishment splits up that payment among its employes is not really my problem.

[whottt]

so why didn't the restaurant give their employee 16 bucks from the $73 bill the customers paid?

Sometimes they do. Depends on how their cashier system is setup.

why bother the customers and arrest them? if they were willing to comp the food, just accept the money from the bill, and just give the waiter $16 from it and call it even.

Oh I think it's ing funny they got arrested. It's ing hilarious.

Why must the $16 come from the customers? they didn't think that through now did they. just "OMFG IM CALLING THE COPS"

Why don't the customers that don't want to tip go to a restaurant without waiters?


You know that you are expected to tip 15% when you got to a restaurant, everyone knows that.

It's expected, you knolw it, you are electing to be a ty human being and refuse to pay it because no one is forcing you too...

That just makes you a ing asshole.

If you don't agree with that system, don't go to a restaurant that has a waitstaff.

Simple really.

You see when you go to a restaurant and accept the service of a waitstaff and refuse you tip, you are not only ing up the system for the waiter, but for the people that do tip as well.

[whottt]

Something tells me whottt has been a waiter at some time in his life.

All through college. I might add it's also easy to tell which people have never been waiters.

I guarantee you that anyone that has ever been one is not someone who never tips.

[whottt]

How is this a customers problem? If the waiter cannot live with the salary he's getting, he should take it up with his employer or find another job.

How about you don't go to restaurants with waitstaff and go get your own ing food and drinks fatass.

I never tip. I do pay for service, how the establishment splits up that payment among its employes is not really my problem.

Oh but it most definitely is your problem, you just don't know it.

I'll give you a hint as one human to another...don't ever have a regular restaurant you go to, where they know who you are and that you do not tip.


I'll just assure you that it is likely far more your problem than you realize if you do.

You see, if you don't play by the rules, like a , don't expect them too either.

And I'll also say this, I would not trade meals eaten and drinks drunken with you for a billion dollars.

100% serious. Not for a billion dollars.

You have a wonderful day Velik.

PS: Don't ever become a monarch either, your reign will be a short one.

[whottt]

The article says they got refills for their sodas in the bar themselves. So, first they were not mixed drinks and secondly, the bar was not too busy even to refill sodas.

Yes, when I have gotten bad service, I have at times told the manager that the waiter had too many tables. But then again, I have had people who work in restaurants tell me they want more tables, even when they know they can't serve them properly, because more tables = more tips.

Also, I have seen waiters stand around and do nothing. Or the disappearing guy who I found watching the Spurs game in the bar area when I went to get something out of my car.

I wouldn't tip in some of those instances either.

Customers going to the bar doesn't mean anything either...Bartenders tell waiters to off all the time, they do not say that to customers.


If you really want to piss the waiter off it is much better to do something like a leave a penny instead of nothing. If you leave nothing they just think you are an idiot, if you leave a penny they'll get the message.

And BTW if they were pissed at the waiter and blaming him for everything, it makes total sense they would pay for the food and refuse to pay for the service...because it totally s the waiter and that is their likely intent.

[whottt]

Tipping in the US always makes me laugh, especially this "compulsory tip" nonsense. How about you set up a decent minimum wage system so that waiters/waitresses get paid a living wage, and tip only for service that is very good or better?

Why don't you take it up with the restaurants? Do you think it's the waiters saying, pay us under the regular minimum wage, we love that!

[whottt]

It's truly amazing the number of stupid people that do not realize the power the person bringing their food has over them.

That's not the last person you show respect to...it's the first. To not do so is thoroughly stupid.

You people are so so trusting...and cheap.


Absolutely horrible combination of qualities as far as long term survival goes.

[velik_m]

How about you don't go to restaurants with waitstaff and go get your own ing food and drinks fatass.

You didn't anwser my question: How is waiter's wage a customer's problem? When you buy some product in a store, do you worry how that money will be distributed to the workers? When you go to the doctor, do you tip the receptionist? Do you tip people at McDonalds? They handle your food too.

Oh but it most definitely is your problem, you just don't know it.

I'll give you a hint as one human to another...don't ever have a regular restaurant you go to, where they know who you are and that you do not tip.

I'll just assure you that it is likely far more your problem than you realize if you do.

You see, if you don't play by the rules, like a , don't expect them too either.

And I'll also say this, I would not trade meals eaten and drinks drunken with you for a billion dollars.

100% serious. Not for a billion dollars.

I really don't have a problem. In my country if a meal is 4.90, and i give a 5 euro bill, i'll get back the 10 cents. That's how a proper business works - they put up a price for the service, i request that service, i receive said service and then i pay for the service on a previously agreed price.

[whottt]

You didn't anwser my question: How is waiter's wage a customer's problem?

Because the customer is responsible for paying a portion of the waiters wage unless the waiter does something to change that. That is how we do it here in America.

You see, the waiter is not getting the restaurant drinks and food, the waiter is getting customers drinks and food. The restaurant is not the one consuming the drinks and asking someone to refill them, the customer is the one doing that.

When you buy some product in a store, do you worry how that money will be distributed to the workers?

Always, it's the kind of fellow I am.

When you go to the doctor, do you tip the receptionist?

Nope. It is not part of the economy of the Doctors office.

That said, it never hurts to tip anywhere, if you see a reason for it. It can only help and serve to make the world a better place for us all.

Do you tip people at McDonalds? They handle your food too.

Depends on if they bring my food and drinks or not. Since they usually don't, no...it's not part of the economy of McDonalds.

I really don't have a problem. In my country if a meal is 4.90, and i give a 5 euro bill, i'll get back the 10 cents. That's how a proper business works - they put up a price for the service, i request that service, i receive said service and then i pay for the service on a previously agreed price.

Damn, will you Euros ever learn to be culturally sensitive? You'd think you would have figured that whole "proper" thing is kind of an asshole perspective after the cultural genocide you spread out over the world during the colonial era.


Still the same...and I tell people that want to follow Europe's lead that all the time...hopefully they'll start to listen when they hear those sorts of comments about what is proper.


What is proper, is do as the customs of the country you are in, so while that may be the way a proper business works where you are from, it is not the proper way conduct yourself in a restaurant here in America.


In America, it is proper to tip at least 15% at a restaurant for service unless the service was poor. That is the way the economy of the restaurants are designed to work. And it works well as long as everyone plays by the rules.

And if they don't want to do that, then don't go to a restaurant that has a service staff. Go to one without.


You know why you don't see any dinging restaurants without waitstaff here in America? It's not because no one tries to do it it, it's because they go out of business pretty much every time.

Shame too...if only the people that don't tip would go to those restaurants they would probably stay in business.



And the restaurants will almost always take the side of the waiter, because they would rather you pay them that money, than they themselves having to do it. And since most managers know exactly what a pain in the ass being a waiter is, they will pretty much always take their side as well, because if they have no waiters, they will have to wait hte table themselves. And they never want to do that. Because it's a pain in the ass.



You see all waiters get compliments and complaints, if they know you do not tip, your complaint will be filed under, totally meaningless. They will understand exactly why you get poor service, and realize it is entirely your fault.