The Purest Form of NBA Dominance
Is Tim Duncan good enough to be ranked with the best PF and Centers of the NBA. Historically the answer is yes. In the Modern NBA there are few who can compare. One player that has been compared to Duncan on a regular basis is Shaquille O'Neal. Is the comparison really as close as everyone would like to suggest?
In order to get a clear picture we have to look at career averages first.
In the first comparison we are going to look at points. During his 19 year career Shaquille O'Neal has averaged 1,459 points per season. Duncan slightly more at 1,492 points per season. This can easily be attributed to Tim's ability to shoot the ball at a greater distance from the basket on a few rare occasions connect from the three-point line. While O'Neal lives in the paint and is known for his in-your-face slams, Duncan is more of a finess shooter with a classic old style hook shot to cap his interesting array of shots. The main difference between the two in this category can come from Shaquille's natural talent for missing free throws. Even so the advantage still goes to Duncan.
In the second comparison we are going to look at turn overs. A great player usually takes care of the ball a little better and doesn't give up points to the opposition. Shaquille has averaged 166 turnovers per season, while Duncan turns the ball over approximately 193 times per season. One could attribute this difference in turnovers to Duncan's outside shooting because in order to shoot far from the basket usually a player will have to dribble. O'Neal plays tight to the rim and in the process receives a pass, power dribbles and forces the ball to the basket leaving little room for interference from pesky defenders. The advantage here goes to Shaquille.
In the third comparison we move to blocks. A Center or Power Forward are usually responsible for a big portion of their teams defense. Blocks are a staple portion of defense and can lead to turnovers or a fracture in opposing confidence to score in the paint. Dunce over his 13 seasons averages 164 blocks per season. Shaquille O'Neal averages 203 per season. Blocks are an underrated part of the NBA. Most of the influence of blocks are overshadowed by the frequency of fouls that are called as a result of blocking attempts thus leading to fan frustration but there is still no subs ute for great defense. The advantage here remains with O'Neal.
In the fourth comparison we look at steals. One would not normally associate steals with big men however, steals are key to recognizing their defensive presence against slower and sometimes faster players. In highlights their activity in the defenses and gives an idea as to their mobility. O'Neal averages 37 steals per season compared to Duncan's 53 steals. Duncan is clearly more agile and more capable of running with quicker offensive players. This have pushed his totals in this area to eclipse O'Neal. Duncan is more focused on a full figured defense while O'Neal defends his immediate areas giving in to fade away and outside shots if it requires him to give up the a post position. The Advantage here slides back to Duncan.
In the fifth comparison we look at assists. Assists are potentially the most important criteria for a big man. The statistic is an indication of the players ability to generate offense. A big that can attract a defense, see the floor, and make a pass is three times more lethal than a simple scoring and rebounding threat. O'Neal averages 154 assists per season compared to Duncan's 221. Duncan has more awareness than O'Neal and in essence has taken mediocre players and plays and turned them into points. This has allowed a much less explosive Spurs team to stay among the elite teams for many expected and unexpected years. O'Neal has worked on his passing in recent years and seems to be more aware now then in his prime but I still would not call him a great assisting Center. The Advantage here remains with Duncan.
Our final comparison is in rebounding. Rebounds are the second most important criteria in the game. It is vital to a teams success that missed baskets be collected on both the offensive and defensive end of the floor. Second chance points that outweigh an opponents almost always equates to victory. O'Neal is considered one of the best rebounding centers of all-time. He averages 664 rebounds per season compared to Tim's 819. Duncan's clear dominance on the boards is another reason why the Spurs are one of the toughest teams to beat. The advantage remains with Duncan.
Both men are uncharistically close in regards to their career accomplishments as well. In making a accurate comparison that is why it was necessary to turn to the statistics to solve the dilemma. Here are the career statistics just so you can see how they ranks with each other.
NBA les:
Duncan - 1999,2003,2005, & 2007
O'Neal - 2000, 2001, 2002, & 2006
Actually it shows how dominate these guys really are/were. When one wasn't winning the Finals the other was.
NBA Rookie of the Year:
Duncan - 1998
O'Neal - 1993
Both were impact players from the get go.
Finals MVP:
Duncan - 1999, 2003, & 2005
O'Neal - 2000, 2001, & 2003
Shows dominance!
NBA MVP:
Duncan - 2002, 2003
O'Neal - 2000
The only main difference. But O'Neal balanced it out with obtaining scoring les in 1995 & 2000. Duncan to my knowledge doesn't have any scoring les.
All these things being realized I would gladly make the argument that Duncan is the most dominate big man of the NBA's current era. Shaquille O'Neal is by far the more recognized of the two and that has fashioned him as the best in many people's mind but Duncan has him beat in almost every statistical category and is about 5 years behind him career wise. Look for Duncan's final numbers to be among the best all-time.
does the turnover stat include charges?
I love this kind of article. it reminds me watching the lottery and getting the number one pick. from when we didnt get 4 oh my ****, and thinking the spurs were still going to end up with 3 or 2.
have to enjoy these times
Tim duncan goes down as best ever, that ive seen in my 30 years
Last edited by austN Spur; 11-23-2009 at 06:47 PM.
Old news, Tim has always been better.
definitely think when its all said and done duncan will obviously have the better career. as for the most dominant of this certain decade can be very debatable but IMO would take Duncan any day of the week
thanks for the write up though. interesting
Tim has more skills too.
Tim G.O.A.T enough said
19 year career? Are they counting his college years?
Uh, nice try, but lame.
1. Nobody in their right minds would ever argue that Duncan is a better scorer. He has more points per season simply because Shaq's over/under for games in a season was around 70.
2. Turnovers he got right. Duncan puts the ball on the floor way more than Shaq (some would say too much).
3. Blocks? Who cares? Blocks != defense, despite Marcus Camby's *cough* DPOY award *cough*. As the counterpoint to #1, nobody in their right minds would argue that Shaq is a better defensive player.
4. Shaq is actually a damn good passer, but he looked to score (rightly so) much more than Duncan. Duncan is of course a much better high-post player, but Shaq in the low post is as good as passer as TD.
[QUOTE=duncan228;3862079]The Purest Form of NBA Dominance
In the third comparison we move to blocks. A Center or Power Forward are usually responsible for a big portion of their teams defense. Blocks are a staple portion of defense and can lead to turnovers or a fracture in opposing confidence to score in the paint. Dunce over his 13 seasons averages 164 blocks per season. Shaquille O'Neal averages 203 per season. Blocks are an underrated part of the NBA. Most of the influence of blocks are overshadowed by the frequency of fouls that are called as a result of blocking attempts thus leading to fan frustration but there is still no subs ute for great defense. The advantage here remains with O'Neal.
Did this guy just call Tim "Dunce?"
Back in the dark ages before every bit of sports information was available instantaneously, The Sporting News was required reading for the serious sports fan. Now they pass off fan blogs as worthwhile content on their website.
This was some of the worst "analysis" I've ever read..
that's my boy!
But I like the result so it must be true!
For real though, Timmy is way better than Shaq.
And after this game, the Spurs finally get a win with Duncan scoring 20 or more. :]
Especially when the "writer" thinks dominate is an adjective.
Whatever the result is, the article is just stupidity in it's purest form. Duncan get more points per season than Shaq not because he's a better scorer, it's because Shaq is further removed from his prime. The same pretty much applies to all the stats.
The article did nothing to normalize pace, minutes played, the way teams defend either of them, what kind of teammates they have, and basically look at the stats on face value.
The blocks and steals department means absolutely nothing with regards to defense, and the writer tried to pass it off as some kind of gauge to defense.
Duncan, as good a passer as he was, was not as good as Shaq during the majority of their careers. Duncan is an absolutely fantastic big man passer now, and he has reached this level around probably 2005, 2006 or so, but Shaq has been a great passing big man since his Orlando days. The assists numbers are misleading based on the kind of offense teams run around Duncan and Shaq.
agreed. not much was said besides whose averages were better and comparing achievements. it kinda tickles me that the writer didn't even use the head-to-head stats/wins, which is what is usually brought up in debates of which player is better in their respective era, not saying that that is the best way to go about it. didnt give playoff statistics either.
and good call on how overrated blocks/steals are for determining defensive prowess and assists for passing ability. neither of those stats can take into account altered shots/how many points were allowed to the opposing player/etc or passes that lead to an assist (which happens VERY often with the spurs' inside-to-Tim-until-he-gets-double-teamed-and-kicks-out-to-player-who-swings-pass-to-another-player-who-swings-pass-to-another-player-who-swings-pass-to-open-shooter ball movement)
The article looks like it was written by an 8 year old kid, who just became interested in basketball in the past year.
timmeh!
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