Kobe or Hakeem

[Allanon]

What the are you talking about 0 ring Hakeem. Players don't magically become better players once they win rings. Teams win rings, not players.

Bottom line:
1.) Hakeem took an average talent team vs. insurmountable odds (2 60 win teams) and came away victorious.
2.) Duncan took an average talent team (2003) vs. above average teams and came away victorious.
3.) Kobe took extremely stacked teams and won "some" of the time.

If Hakeem played in this era it would be complete and utter domination.

READ the ing discussion before you open your fat mouth and you won't be so lost next time, Rocketfan.

[Lars]

I read the entire discussion, you are an idiot, you flop on your points, you qualify every statement and we end up with "Kobe is a better player on Tuesdays when wearing green shoes"

You can try and put up as many conditions to the argument as you want, but Hakeem is still better than Kobe every day of the week.

[Allanon]

Hakeem with zero, zilch, nada, 0 rings was equal to Kobe/Duncan with 4 rings.

Like I said, stupid homer with the blinders on. Not surprising.

[dbreiden83080]

Like I said, stupid homer with the blinders on. Not surprising.

Barkley by his own admission could not guard his own grandma.. Hakeem was one of the most dominant defensive big men of all time..

[Allanon]

Barkley by his own admission could not guard his own grandma.. Hakeem was one of the most dominant defensive big men of all time..

I don't deny Hakeem was a great player, everybody knows this.

My contention is that prior to Hakeem's championship years, Hakeem < Kobe.

Only blind homers like Lars would be stupid enough to put O ring'ed Hakeem in Kobe/Duncan territory.

[Sportstudi]

You are right, there have only been four players to ever do it, i dont wanna know about the ones that came close. He also has the most 5x5 games in history with 6, and is the only guy to ever have a 5x6 game. Personally, i dont think these numbers, or Kobe's 81 matter when comparing the two in terms of their standing in history. Both had remarkable feats, so your wrong to say Kobe's were any greater. Hakeem holds his own against any player in history in terms of statistical feats.

I don't want to get into your discussion with Allanon, but here I have to insert that you are wrong. Hakeem wasn't the only one ever to record a five-by-six.

See here...

[Lars]

I don't deny Hakeem was a great player, everybody knows this.

My contention is that prior to Hakeem's championship years, Hakeem < Kobe.

Only blind homers like Lars would be stupid enough to put O ring'ed Hakeem in Kobe/Duncan territory.

Nice argument

Keep digging yourself deeper

[Allanon]

Nice argument

Thanks, Lars.

[mystargtr34]

I don't want to get into your discussion with Allanon, but here I have to insert that you are wrong. Hakeem wasn't the only one ever to record a five-by-six.

See here...

Sorry, Kirilenko aswell? You will have to excuse my one game fact checking .

So its been done twice in history?

[Rummpd]

Duncan over either of them he has the highest winning percentage of any player in major sport history and Hakeem would be second and Kobe a very distant third - bigs lead championships historically period.

[wekko368]

Duncan over either of them he has the highest winning percentage of any player in major sport history and Hakeem would be second and Kobe a very distant third - bigs lead championships historically period.

The flaw in your argument is that it depends on the team as a whole. Both Duncan and Kobe's teammates were far superior to Olajuwon's. That's also why Allanon's argument regarding rings is invalid as well.

But you are correct that bigs lead championships. That's why bigs with potential are always drafted high (Oden, Bargnani, Bogut, Howard, Yao, Kwame, Olowokandi, etc...). And this thread is talking about one of the best big men of all time. Of course Olajuwon is the obvious choice.

[Allanon]

The flaw in your argument is that it depends on the team as a whole. Both Duncan and Kobe's teammates were far superior to Olajuwon's.

That's also why Allanon's argument regarding rings is invalid as well.

Hakeem had 4 time All Star Ralph Sampson and they were the original "Twin Towers".

Kobe won a ring with Pau Gasol, only a 2 time All Star that everybody said was soft and a choker. Pau had never won even 1 Playoff game until he played with Kobe.

[wekko368]

Hakeem had 4 time All Star Ralph Sampson and they were the original "Twin Towers".

Olajuwon and Sampson played less than 4 seasons together, and during those seasons, Olajuwon was still very raw. Also, keep in mind that Sampson himself was a very young player. Sampson was only in his 2nd year when Olajuwon joined the Rockets.

The 80's Rockets' team had the potential to be a dynasty, but injuries and drugs destroyed it.

You've continually harped on the caliber of the pre-championships Olajuwon. No offense, but I'm going to assume you've never seen him play unless it was within the last few year of his career.

During the few years preceding his les, Olajuwon was easily the best center in the game. The main reason the Rockets were able to win their first championship was the addition of Sam Cassell and the development of Robert Horry. The 1994 Olajuwon was largely the same as the 1993 one.

Kobe won a ring with Pau Gasol, only a 2 time All Star that everybody said was soft and a choker. Pau had never won even 1 Playoff game until he played with Kobe.

No offense, but using all-star appearances is a poor determination of a player's caliber, especially when the western conference had perennial all-star pf's of Dirk, Duncan, and Garnett.

A more relevant fact is that Gasol was both Memphis's franchise player and a highly effective big in a league where highly effective bigs are few and far between.

I get that you're a Kobe fan, but trying to prop him up by criticizing Gasol is pure idiocy. Anyone can see that he's a beast.

[duhoh]

Olajuwon and Sampson played less than 4 seasons together, and during those seasons, Olajuwon was still very raw. Also, keep in mind that Sampson himself was a very young player. Sampson was only in his 2nd year when Olajuwon joined the Rockets.

The 80's Rockets' team had the potential to be a dynasty, but injuries and drugs destroyed it.

You've continually harped on the caliber of the pre-championships Olajuwon. No offense, but I'm going to assume you've never seen him play unless it was within the last few year of his career.

During the few years preceding his les, Olajuwon was easily the best center in the game. The main reason the Rockets were able to win their first championship was the addition of Sam Cassell and the development of Robert Horry. The 1994 Olajuwon was largely the same as the 1993 one.



No offense, but using all-star appearances is a poor determination of a player's caliber, especially when the western conference had perennial all-star pf's of Dirk, Duncan, and Garnett.

A more relevant fact is that Gasol was both Memphis's franchise player and a highly effective big in a league where highly effective bigs are few and far between.

I get that you're a Kobe fan, but trying to prop him up by criticizing Gasol is pure idiocy. Anyone can see that he's a beast.

FINALLY!

a reasonable post by a rockets fan

[Galileo]

Here's a stat for you all.

Hakeem had the highest peak on any player in NAB history, not in '94/'95, but in 1988.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._season_p.html

Hakeem had the highest playoff PER of all time.

STATS

4 games

38 points per game
17 rebounds per game
38 of 43 free throws
3 blocks per game
2 steals per game

FG% = 57%
TS% = 64%

DRB% = 33%
TRB% = 23%

ORtg = 134




PER = 39.0! = Best in NBA history

[Sportstudi]

Sorry, Kirilenko aswell? You will have to excuse my one game fact checking .

So its been done twice in history?

No problem

Yes, twice.

[Darrin]

Am I getting this right--Kobe Bryant is underachieving?

[ambchang]

Kobe's prime is only good enough to be compared to Hakeem's pre-prime.
Gotcha.

[Killakobe81]

In his prime Dream is probably the best big man ever, if he wouldve maintained that level longer there probably wouldnt be any doubt about who the best Center ever was.



You mean 48 yr old Robinson? Wild an erratic rookie Ginobili? 2nd year Parker that got benched in favor or Speedy ing Claxton in the 4th qtr of numerous games? And journeyman Stephen Jackson?

Disagree here. Agree hakeem was most dominant center of his era and ever since (in his prime) BUT Kareem in his prime was even more dominant offensivelyand only a little less so on defense ...

[Killakobe81]

HAkeem is the 2nd greatest center I ever saw BUT you still take Kobe ...NO ONE kills the ROX for passing Mj for Hakeem because he was a HOF'er ...but if they could do it over they take mj no doubt. when all is said and done KOBE COULD BE the 2nd greatest to MJ so you take Kobe ...
But I will say this the 1st le team Hakeem had not many other players could of carried them to a le ...on the other hand not many could carry Luke, Sasha and Dfish as a starting PG at age 30 to a le either ...

[Culburn369]

on the other hand not many could carry Luke, Sasha and Dfish as a starting PG at age 30 to a le either ...

Though Dfish hoisting Kobe out of Orlando in a fireman's carry was adorable.

[z0sa]

Allanon with yet another epic failure.

These threads are still good though. Makes it easy to see who is an absolute dimwit with no bball knowledge or history, though we all knew Allanon before.

[ambchang]

HAkeem is the 2nd greatest center I ever saw BUT you still take Kobe ...NO ONE kills the ROX for passing Mj for Hakeem because he was a HOF'er ...but if they could do it over they take mj no doubt. when all is said and done KOBE COULD BE the 2nd greatest to MJ so you take Kobe ...
But I will say this the 1st le team Hakeem had not many other players could of carried them to a le ...on the other hand not many could carry Luke, Sasha and Dfish as a starting PG at age 30 to a le either ...

Kobe could be the 2nd greatest to MJ?

Magic, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell, Big O, Bird are all clearly > Kobe at this point. Kobe's been in the league for more than a dozen years, it's highly unlikely that he can keep this up for enough years to pass any of the ones mentioned above.

[Allanon]

Allanon with yet another epic failure.

These threads are still good though. Makes it easy to see who is an absolute dimwit with no bball knowledge or history, though we all knew Allanon before.

Z0sa with the same idiotic trash as usual. This guy can't be this stupid, he's gotta be trolling Lakerfan

So let's hear it...

Was 0 ring Hakeem on the same level as 4 ring Kobe/Duncan?

[z0sa]

Z0sa with the same idiotic trash yet again.

So let's hear it...

Is 0 ring Hakeem on the same level as 4 ring Kobe/Duncan?

Anyone stupid enough to even entertain such a debate as this^ should be impaled by a spork. It has no consequence whatsoever, on whether Kobe or Hakeem is the better player to win les around (notice I didn't say WITH, leadership and the ability to make teammates better without an assist are the two most underrated aspects of guys like Hakeem). Which is why I called it an epic fail.