How to fix our public schools?

[Winehole23]

i could never fully realize why noam chomsky considered himself an anarchist. i mean here is this political dissident who constantly asks the government to be more engaged in social reform. until i realized that, conservative or liberal, if you really wanted to get the point of absolute reform and change you would have to do so incrementally.

Giving schools and states the ability to opt-out of federal standards and money might be one incremental path. It would require significant courage and ingenuity on the part of the schools and states, but it might be doable.

the financial impetus would have to be initially sprung up from the government. in time one would hope that communities would then get control

If the government pays, it will never surrender control.

[Kori Ellis]

you spend all your money on a named amanda.

remember?

you stalk women on the internet.

remember?

Simmer down a bit. You guys can hate each other's political/moral/social views all you want. And you can call each other names, but leave people's significant others, wives, kids, friends, etc out of it.

Thanks.

[clambake]

Simmer down a bit. You guys can hate each other's political/moral/social views all you want. And you can call each other names, but leave people's significant others, wives, kids, friends, etc out of it.

Thanks.

what about mothers?

[rjv]

Giving schools and states the ability to opt-out of federal standards and money might be one incremental path. It would require significant courage and ingenuity on the part of the schools and states, but it might be doable.

If the government pays, it will never surrender control.

this is the paradox of reform. it would need funding. the government would often be the source of this funding. but why would a government essentially choose to off itself ? only an administration voted into office that would be willing to surrender certain programs to such changes would be capable of this. but that is not going to happen any time soon.

[clambake]

Giving schools and states the ability to opt-out of federal standards and money might be one incremental path. It would require significant courage and ingenuity on the part of the schools and states, but it might be doable.

giving a school the ability to opt out would put the entire burden on the parents of that schools students. that would be a private school. the parents would look for support other than themselves.

saddling the community would make for some good discussion.

then we could move to privatize our police departments. imagine the areas that would be without patrol.

wouldn't this just widen the gap even further?

[TeyshaBlue]

giving a school the ability to opt out would put the entire burden on the parents of that schools students. that would be a private school. the parents would look for support other than themselves.

saddling the community would make for some good discussion.

then we could move to privatize our police departments. imagine the areas that would be without patrol.

wouldn't this just widen the gap even further?

A .20$/gallon state gas tax would handle our education funding quite nicely, I would think. Privatization would undoubtably take place, as it does now, but it wouldn't be inevitable as you describe it.

[coyotes_geek]

A .20$/gallon state gas tax would handle our education funding quite nicely, I would think. Privatization would undoubtably take place, as it does now, but it wouldn't be inevitable as you describe it.

Texas is already doing that. 25% of the gas tax proceeds already go towards education.

On a related note, our transportation infrastructure is underfunded...........

[TeyshaBlue]

Texas is already doing that. 25% of the gas tax proceeds already go towards education.

On a related note, our transportation infrastructure is underfunded...........

We haven't increased the gas tax since 1991. Rep. Senator John Carona is already calling for a 10 cent/gal increase to fund highway projects. Another .10 cents would go along way towards funding education in Texas.

[EmptyMan]

Throw more money @ the schools. It has worked wonders in the past

More gas tax, yayyyyyyyy. It's not like we drive big trucks in Texas or anything.

[coyotes_geek]

We haven't increased the gas tax since 1991. Rep. Senator John Carona is already calling for a 10 cent/gal increase to fund highway projects. Another .10 cents would go along way towards funding education in Texas.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread and start a discussion about the gas tax. But I do agree that it needs to be raised. Personally, I'd prefer not to divert any gas tax money away from transportation and that we find some other mechanism to fund education. But maybe that's just me.

[TeyshaBlue]

Throw more money @ the schools. It has worked wonders in the past

More gas tax, yayyyyyyyy.

Um not so much. We're talking about how to fund schools if we divorce ourselves from Federal guidelines and funding.

[TeyshaBlue]

Didn't mean to hijack the thread and start a discussion about the gas tax. But I do agree that it needs to be raised. Personally, I'd prefer not to divert any gas tax money away from transportation and that we find some other mechanism to fund education. But maybe that's just me.

I think it's a reasonable component of the discussion. If we want to address the shortcomings in our schools, ie the OP, then funding will be an inevitable component of that discussion.

[Winehole23]

Um not so much. We're talking about how to fund schools if we divorce ourselves from Federal guidelines and funding.

EM isn't real big on context. Or discussion. Or reading for that matter.

The only thing he seems to like is ripping on other posters. Mostly nonsensically, as above.

[TeyshaBlue]

EM isn't real big on context. Or discussion. Or reading for that matter.

That's never stopped me.

[Winehole23]

What is the internet for, besides porn and gambling?

[jacobdrj]

A basic level of literacy and numeracy is required for self-sufficiency in an advanced society.

Primary education is a social must; secondary ed and college should be reserved for anyone with proven (or otherwise compelling) ap ude. IMHO.

If we are failing as bad as people claim, how would making schools optional change any of that? Parents are still the number 1 teacher in terms of basic reading and math, and those who know they are incapable of imparting that knowledge on the kids can still put their kids in school in an optional system.

Also, with child labour laws, it isn't like the kids would be doing anything else.

[Winehole23]

If we are failing as bad as people claim, how would making schools optional change any of that?

Why waste time, money and effort on kids who don't want to be there or can't cut it? Sure, it gets kids off the street, but is that really what schools are for?

[jacobdrj]

Why waste time, money and effort on kids who don't want to be there or can't cut it? Sure, it gets kids off the street, but is that really what schools are for?

That was sort of what I was getting at.

[spursncowboys]

Why waste time, money and effort on kids who don't want to be there or can't cut it? Sure, it gets kids off the street, but is that really what schools are for?

I honestly believe that should be the case for some kids. Laws should make them go to school. However there needs to be a way where they get those kind out of regular schools. Bad at udes are infectious. In neisd, they had a school called Center school. I always, jokingly, said it was around to keep kids from comitting crimes in the day time. You basically showed up and tried and they passed you. You had to do your work and worked on your own level. The diploma's there took away the worth, but that is why I believe to make an incentive towards helping with funding of college or training programs.

[spursncowboys]

We shouldn't give kids the right to go to school and then give them a helping hand(welfare) down the road when their choices turn out wrong.

[ElNono]

We shouldn't give kids the right to go to school and then give them a helping hand(welfare) down the road when their choices turn out wrong.

What do you suggest to do if they make the wrong choice when their intellect is not really evolved enough to make such a choice? Do we shot them?

[clambake]

What do you suggest to do if they make the wrong choice when their intellect is not really evolved enough to make such a choice? Do we shot them?

no . if this were implemented long ago, these assholes wouldn't be alive to make these stupid opinions.

[spursncowboys]

What do you suggest to do if they make the wrong choice when their intellect is not really evolved enough to make such a choice? Do we shot them?

Don't be an asshole. The point is all of the school's resources should not be consistently wasted on kids doing wrong. The NE side did an ok job of seperating kids getting in trouble. From ISS, SRC, Alternative and finally JJARP I think is the acronym. It's bexar county jail school. I also think gang members should automatically be seperated.

[EVAY]

Teachers are the key.

We don't value them in this society. If we did, we would pay them better.
We turn over most of our parental functions to teachers, and then want them to do our job and the traditional teaching job and pay them like we would pay nannies or baby sitters.

There are a lot of really bad teachers out there right now. There are a lot of really bad parents out there right now. If we incented teachers better by paying them better, more competent people would be drawn to it. Some people really consider it a vocation and would do it for almost any amount of money. But, just like with everything else, if you want the absolute best, you have to figure out a better incentive system.

Let me ask you this. If you have a college degree in math and someone offers you a job in a private company that uses your math skills for product development at a salary of 45-60K per annum, and someone offers you a teaching job that uses your math skills at say 25-35K per annum, plus you get to deal with bratty kids, obnoxious (or uncaring)parents, and know that you will struggle to make enough money to give your kids the kind of education that you yourself got, what decision would you make?

And if you say you would teach, how would you justify that decision in light of your own parental obligations to your kids?

I faced that decision. I understand that I live in a capitalist society. I don't have a problem with that. But when I was teaching in a state university making less than some starting young manager in private industry, I recognised that I needed to pay attention to what my society was telling me. So I went to work in private industry and made ten times as much money in short order than I ever would have in a university setting.

Then I could give my kids a good education...and did.

When education is important to us, we will pay educators enough to attract and retain the best in their fields. Until then, our schools get worse and worse.

It's the American way.

[spursncowboys]

Teachers are the key.

We don't value them in this society. If we did, we would pay them better.
We turn over most of our parental functions to teachers, and then want them to do our job and the traditional teaching job and pay them like we would pay nannies or baby sitters.

There are a lot of really bad teachers out there right now. There are a lot of really bad parents out there right now. If we incented teachers better by paying them better, more competent people would be drawn to it. Some people really consider it a vocation and would do it for almost any amount of money. But, just like with everything else, if you want the absolute best, you have to figure out a better incentive system.

Let me ask you this. If you have a college degree in math and someone offers you a job in a private company that uses your math skills for product development at a salary of 45-60K per annum, and someone offers you a teaching job that uses your math skills at say 25-35K per annum, plus you get to deal with bratty kids, obnoxious (or uncaring)parents, and know that you will struggle to make enough money to give your kids the kind of education that you yourself got, what decision would you make?

And if you say you would teach, how would you justify that decision in light of your own parental obligations to your kids?

I faced that decision. I understand that I live in a capitalist society. I don't have a problem with that. But when I was teaching in a state university making less than some starting young manager in private industry, I recognised that I needed to pay attention to what my society was telling me. So I went to work in private industry and made ten times as much money in short order than I ever would have in a university setting.

Then I could give my kids a good education...and did.

When education is important to us, we will pay educators enough to attract and retain the best in their fields. Until then, our schools get worse and worse.

It's the American way.

I agree that we should pay them more. I think there should be a better way of giving raises besides seniority. There has to be a way to give raises to good teachers. I don't mean going by taks, because they'll just teach them to pass a test all year like they did to my niece and nephew.
Teachers should not have to have all these years of school and then take a low wage job. I think they have free college if you promise to teach for a certain amount of years in NM, Im not sure about Texas.