Thoughts on the new Afghanistan policy?

[MannyIsGod]

I think its an unwinnable situation. I think the government is far too corrupt and thats why we can't win. These guys don't have a national iden y (even Iraq has a far larget national iden y than what we're looking at here and we've all seen how weak that is) so I'm not sure how on earth you're ever going to forge a nation without a government people can respect and have faith in.

You can try to provide more security for isolated areas but that simply isn't going to last once we're done barring some amazing advancements. I think Obama has given the generals what they want but not the time they want BUT he has given them the time in which they said this war would be won. McCristol said 18 months would determine the outcome of this war and that is what he's gotten. What it seems like to me is a reevaluation at 18 months where we stay or withdraw at a slow pace if things are going well. Otherwise, I do think we get the out at that point. The big problem here is there are no concrete ways to say if things are on the right track. The whole concept of "winning" is so nebulous.

I like the deadline and I feel its necessary if you're going to stay but that doesn't mean I like staying at all. The problem isn't in Afghanistan any longer, its in Pakistan and we're virtually powerless to do anything about it.

[spursncowboys]

This is basic stuff we're talking here... What's the goal? How do we know we won and it's time to come back home?

I'll tell you a valid strategy that would work better than what we've been doing: GTFO...

I agree. We need a goal. Not for the public toknow but military. Then we need to focus on winning (fulfilling that goal). We have lowered our mark but seem to keep the same goal (they stand up and we leave) but now have a timeline. If we complete the goals or not, at the end of the timeline we are leaving. So either way more military will die. If we aren't there to win we need to gtfo.
Afghanistan is a very strategic location and we should try and maintain allies with them. It would benefit our military and their population.
MIG: Great point about the national iden y. I wonder why no one talks about Biden's plan for Iraq-divided into different states. One basic thing the Iraq surge did was started from the middle of Baghdad and move outwards. We can do that withh the tribal leaders outside the providence in kabul and work outwards. Finding which are unwilling to bend social norms. Petraius was on Morning Joe this morning and had some good answers for the poppy seed farmers.

[Wild Cobra]

I always did like that song:



But I thing today woosie liberals are too far gone to fight is called upon.

[iggypop123]

i dont understand dont you leave once you win? its the same . i guess im confused as to the anger.

[Yonivore]

Is Obama going to do anything he said he was going to do, and over which he relentlessly bashed his predecessor?

Seems to me he's pretty much continuing the policies of the Bush Administration; albeit, with the disadvantages and problems caused by his dithering and attempting to make the decision to continue palatable to his base...which, it seems, isn't going over well.

[jack sommerset]

Honestly, I don't get Obama. The lies are in your face everyday. Atleast the Obama dems could justify his bull because they like free , ing over rich people,taxing the out of people, talking smack about whitey, causes that help the scam in global warming, bashing Bush, calling people racist,etc..... Now he went against them!

They made excuses for him. Now they can't. Now the war freaks are going to go after him just like Bush. I loved that Moore wrote that letter and went on Larry King and called Obama out. Obama should have sent more troops before that 60 minute piece came out.Gave the lefties alot of time to think and the repugs amo for not making a decision faster.

And when the dumbass does finally decides, he says he will do everything to win this thing but we will be out by July 2011. The guy is not smart. The guy is a ing DUMBASS!

[Winehole23]

I hope Obama was serious in repudiating nation-building in Afghanistan. If he is, that's a significant shift.

[ChumpDumper]

One basic thing the Iraq surge did was started from the middle of Baghdad and move outwards. We can do that withh the tribal leaders outside the providence in kabul and work outwards.

Kabul is not the critical center that Baghdad is.

[InRareForm]

http://www.rethinkafghanistan.com

[rjv]

remember what happened when the soviets kept sending in more and more troops ?

[InRareForm]

afghan is not a military problem. won't be solved by sending in more troops.

[coyotes_geek]

remember what happened when the soviets kept sending in more and more troops ?

Evidently we don't. The recent movie starring Tom Hanks notwithstanding.

[lefty]

[mogrovejo]

As I've always said, this is the worst decision he could have made. History will prove it.

[lefty]

As I've always said, this is the worst decision he could have made. History will prove it.

Don't worry, I'm sure they've stolen enough opium

It was their goal, right?

[Nbadan]

I think its an unwinnable situation. I think the government is far too corrupt and thats why we can't win. These guys don't have a national iden y (even Iraq has a far larget national iden y than what we're looking at here and we've all seen how weak that is) so I'm not sure how on earth you're ever going to forge a nation without a government people can respect and have faith in.

You can try to provide more security for isolated areas but that simply isn't going to last once we're done barring some amazing advancements. I think Obama has given the generals what they want but not the time they want BUT he has given them the time in which they said this war would be won. McCristol said 18 months would determine the outcome of this war and that is what he's gotten. What it seems like to me is a reevaluation at 18 months where we stay or withdraw at a slow pace if things are going well. Otherwise, I do think we get the out at that point. The big problem here is there are no concrete ways to say if things are on the right track. The whole concept of "winning" is so nebulous.

I like the deadline and I feel its necessary if you're going to stay but that doesn't mean I like staying at all. The problem isn't in Afghanistan any longer, its in Pakistan and we're virtually powerless to do anything about it.

The problem has always been in Pakistan....but the Taliban were murderous bas s....this is about telling the Karzai govt. that they better get their together soon than anything else...

[Nbadan]

As I've always said, this is the worst decision he could have made. History will prove it.

Even if it created a real Democracy in the M.E., the GOP would still argue that it was a waste...

History will prove that!

[mogrovejo]

Even if it created a real Democracy in the M.E., the GOP would still argue that it was a waste...

History will prove that!

Huh? What? Do you mind to clarify your post?

[Nbadan]

Huh? What? Do you mind to clarify your post?

No matter what the outcome is in 18 months in Afghanistan the GOP won't be happy...also, as much as I would like to believe that this is about the Afghan people, I know it's about the control of oil/natural gas....

[mogrovejo]

No matter what the outcome is in 18 months in Afghanistan the GOP won't be happy...also, as much as I would like to believe that this is about the Afghan people, I know it's about the control of oil/natural gas....

I'm not the GOP, I don't care about the GOP and you can research my posts from some months ago and you'll see I was already saying this would be the worst possible option.

You have to understand that in a forum like this you'll find people who aren't hardcore partisans and fanatics like yourself.

[Nbadan]

I'm not the GOP, I don't care about the GOP and you can research my posts from some months ago and you'll see I was already saying this would be the worst possible option.

You have to understand that in a forum like this you'll find people who aren't hardcore partisans and fanatics like yourself.

Every post I've seen from you cements the popular belief of how much of a partisan you really are...I guess life is about perception...

[Nbadan]

Everyone who has read my posts knows that I am not a fan of war....especially the Afghanistan war...I think it was successful at first, but then we got into nation building...the U.S.'s forte has never been nation building...we suck...it was a miserable policy in South and Central America and it's proving to be a bad policy in Afghanistan and in Iraq...that said, I'm not for the just shuck and run policies like more hard-core liberals...yes, the war sucks and I want us out ASAP, but if we leave Afghanistan as it is now history will prove that we will suffer a fate much worse than 9/11...

[AFBlue]

I'm trying to figure out how one of the three pillars of this new plan (increased civilian involvement in areas such as agricultural development) is NOT geared toward nation-building. Yes, Obama gave a timetable for troop withdrawal, but what of the "increased civilian involvement"...does that have a timetable as well?

The other part, troop surge, I agree with because if we're going to continue fighting the war, we may as well make the troop levels sufficient to go on the offensive and severly cripple the Taliban insurgency. The only issue there is that when the Taliban flee to Pakistan, they can't have the pressure let off. Either we need to chase into Pakistan or their government needs to commit to a coordinated two-front offensive. Without their involvement either way, this is probably not a "winnable" scenario.

In general, I have to say that I'm pleased with the deliberation prior to making a decision and am willing to give the President some good faith that he and his team of military/defense experts are making a smart, calculated decision. I guess we'll see if he makes a sucker out of me...but I hope not.

[ElNono]

Even if it created a real Democracy in the M.E., the GOP would still argue that it was a waste...

History will prove that!

But there's no Oil there!

[ElNono]

I'm trying to figure out how one of the three pillars of this new plan (increased civilian involvement in areas such as agricultural development) is NOT geared toward nation-building. Yes, Obama gave a timetable for troop withdrawal, but what of the "increased civilian involvement"...does that have a timetable as well?

The other part, troop surge, I agree with because if we're going to continue fighting the war, we may as well make the troop levels sufficient to go on the offensive and severly cripple the Taliban insurgency. The only issue there is that when the Taliban flee to Pakistan, they can't have the pressure let off. Either we need to chase into Pakistan or their government needs to commit to a coordinated two-front offensive. Without their involvement either way, this is probably not a "winnable" scenario.

In general, I have to say that I'm pleased with the deliberation prior to making a decision and am willing to give the President some good faith that he and his team of military/defense experts are making a smart, calculated decision. I guess we'll see if he makes a sucker out of me...but I hope not.

That bolded part there, is the biggie. I just don't think that Pakistan can be coerced to help us. We've funneled a ton of money to them for a long time now, and they keep half-assing it. If the US would actually be allowed to act inside Pakistan, then I would be a little more optimistic about this thing.