Better Career: Jason Kidd or Steve Nash

[Culburn369]

There was too much isolation play in the nineties. Nineties ball involved way too many clearouts where 8 guys were watching 2 guys go 1-on-1.

It was fine by me. Watching Jason Williams walk up and throw it in low to CWEBB (10 times in-a-row) and then walk away to let Webber do his work was a thing of beauty.

Or, listening to Magic come up the left side & command Worthy to "get out." so he could work alone.

[jacobdrj]

Actually a tough one. Kidd made it to the finals I think, but that was in the east when the 8th seed in the west could have made the finals there. I'd have to call a tie because Kidd made the finals, but Nash consistently faced a tougher conference.

He played in a conference that had more regular season wins, but a conference that consistently played less defense.

[stretch]

Going by careers, it's Nash. Because neither of them have rings, you have to look at individual accomplishments, and Nash is one of only like, what, 8 or 9 players in history with b2b MVPs.

Rings are a team accomplishment, so how can you factor rings into evaluating individuals?

I hate it when people think that rings should be the first thing looked at. It's one of the LAST things that should be looked at when evaluating an individual.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Scoring was fine most of the 80s. The 90s were just an abomination.

The problem I have with he league now are touch flagrents and 95% of NBA players literally moving out of the way when Lebron James goes to the rim.

He would have been put in the hospital back in the day.

Some of the flagrants called today are bull , just cause a player is injured, doesn't mean it was a flagrant foul. Lebron's is annoying cause he just recklessly runs at the hoop and barrels over people. No real signature move or anything. It's like the game went from being too physical, and too defensive minded to having too many fouls called and having high scoring games that take 3 hours and 30 minutes because of all the fouls.

[Findog]

The occasional high scoring game is expected to happen. But when a team consistently puts up 130 and gives up around 130 it usually points to a team that is not playing intensely for half the game (when they are on defense.) And that is aggravating to watch and gets boring pretty fast.

That Dallas team played defense. Not the best defense in the world, but they played hard on both sides of the ball far more often than not.

I think there's a difference between a team like Phoenix and Golden State. Phoenix is trying to increase the # of possessions per game and turn it into a game of offensive efficiency. And despite their rep as a no D team, at their peak they finished 12th in the league in defensive efficiency ratings in 2007, which means they put some emphasis on D. I would agree that a team like the Warriors more fits the description of what you're talking about.

I like watching a team like Phoenix, but a team like the Warriors bores me.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Rings are a team accomplishment, so how can you factor rings into evaluating individuals?

I hate it when people think that rings should be the first thing looked at. It's one of the LAST things that should be looked at when evaluating an individual.

Did you know neither Steve Nash nor Jason Kidd won a ring, while the San Antonio Spurs have won 4 rings?

[pauls931]

He played in a conference that had more regular season wins, but a conference that consistently played less defense.

true, but there were a few years where the east was a complete disaster and those are the years kid, Iverson, and Lebron made the finals.

[Culburn369]

Rings are a team accomplishment, so how can you factor rings into evaluating individuals?

I hate it when people think that rings should be the first thing looked at. It's one of the LAST things that should be looked at when evaluating an individual.

...that 3 years span after Daddy had rung/sans Kobe in a vacuum.

[stretch]

Leave it to Pistonfan to come gay up a thread talking about how games where each team shoots below 40% are fun to watch.

i think what he meant was the level of compe iveness. i will admit, i can enjoy a low scoring game of football or basketball quite a bit as long as both teams are playing very compe ively and clearly giving it their all. sometimes shots just dont fall as easily, or defense just prevails.

[Findog]

Some of the flagrants called today are bull , just cause a player is injured, doesn't mean it was a flagrant foul. Lebron's is annoying cause he just recklessly runs at the hoop and barrels over people. No real signature move or anything. It's like the game went from being too physical, and too defensive minded to having too many fouls called and having high scoring games that take 3 hours and 30 minutes because of all the fouls.

I would love to see the refs start calling charges when he pulls that Brandon Jacobs plowing through the goal line crap. "I'm The King! You gots to call a foul!"

[Findog]

i think what he meant was the level of compe iveness. i will admit, i can enjoy a low scoring game of football or basketball quite a bit as long as both teams are playing very compe ively and clearly giving it their all. sometimes shots just dont fall as easily, or defense just prevails.

As long as execution and compe iveness are there, then you can't fault a high-scoring game as back and forth layup lines. The PHX-Dallas playoff series come to mind. As do the high-scoring games during the Spurs-Mavs series in 2006.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

i think what he meant was the level of compe iveness. i will admit, i can enjoy a low scoring game of football or basketball quite a bit as long as both teams are playing very compe ively and clearly giving it their all. sometimes shots just dont fall as easily, or defense just prevails.

My bad then

[stretch]

As long as execution and compe iveness are there, then you can't fault a high-scoring game as back and forth layup lines. The PHX-Dallas playoff series come to mind. As do the high-scoring games during the Spurs-Mavs series in 2006.

i agree.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I would love to see the refs start calling charges when he pulls that Brandon Jacobs plowing through the goal line crap. "I'm The King! You gots to call a foul!"

It'd be, "That wasn't a charge, that was my whale plow. I've used it my entire career."

[jacobdrj]

true, but there were a few years where the east was a complete disaster and those are the years kid, Iverson, and Lebron made the finals.

I agree for the most part, but IMHO 2002, the East wasn't nearly as bad as it was portrayed. The East wasn't bad when LeBron made the Finals so much as the East imploded health wise during the playoffs.

[Findog]

It'd be, "That wasn't a charge, that was my whale plow. I've used it my entire career."

LeBron is fun to watch for the most part and he seems like a good guy off the court, but his sense of en lement on it is pretty goddamn irritating.

[Bob Lanier]

Who the wants to watch teams beat the out of each other in a bunch of 77-70 games?

I do. It's an actual athletic compe ion, as opposed to some and-1 style everyone's-a-winner-and-can-dunk-whenever-they-want-to nonsense d'Antoni and Don Nelson and you appreciate.

It's about as fun to watch as a pickup game.

You mean a game where neither team pretends to play defense or has any sort of effective halfcourt offense?

Oh.

[Findog]

I do. It's an actual athletic compe ion, as opposed to some and-1 style everyone's-a-winner-and-can-dunk-whenever-they-want-to nonsense d'Antoni and Don Nelson and you appreciate.

U mad?

You mean a game where neither team pretends to play defense or has any sort of effective halfcourt offense?

Oh.

No, I mean brickfests with lots of hacking and grabbing, and a score on 1 out of every 6 or 7 possessions.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

LeBron is fun to watch for the most part and he seems like a good guy off the court, but his sense of en lement on it is pretty goddamn irritating.

His ego/sense of en lement/attention act gets worse and worse every year and overshadows the fact he's fun to watch.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I do. It's an actual athletic compe ion, as opposed to some and-1 style everyone's-a-winner-and-can-dunk-whenever-they-want-to nonsense d'Antoni and Don Nelson and you appreciate.

Funny how Findog has specifically said Don Nelson's Warriors are horrible to watch.

[Findog]

His ego/sense of en lement/attention act gets worse and worse every year and overshadows the fact he's fun to watch.

Case in point: The All-Star game is at Cowboys Stadium this year and there are rumors he'll participate in it. The Mavs were in Cleveland last week and the Dallas beat writers asked him straight up if he would participate, and he did the whole "I don't know, it's too early to say, it's just gonna depend on a lot of things." Dude, either do the dunk contest or not. STFU with this Will I or Won't I? act.

[Findog]

Funny how Findog has specifically said Don Nelson's Warriors are horrible to watch.

The Suns are like a hamburger from In-n-Out. The Warriors are like a McDonald's 99 cent hamburger. Same thing, but one is much better.

[LOL@MavsFan]

http://thestartingfive.net/2009/12/0...or-steve-nash/

Nash had two MVPs. Kidd had two Finals appearances. Nash was the better shooter, Kidd the better all-around player.

Neither...I say Mark Aguirre

LOL @ Mark Aguirre

[LOL@MavsFan]

The Suns are like a hamburger from In-n-Out. The Warriors are like a McDonald's 99 cent hamburger. Same thing, but one is much better.

Yep...that 99 cent hamburger owns you and Mark Aguirre

LOL @ Mark Aguirre

[pauls931]

His ego/sense of en lement/attention act gets worse and worse every year and overshadows the fact he's fun to watch.

He could be a likeable guy, but since Jr High, people have been telling him his farts smell like flowers.