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Parker and Manu can create for themselves. Tim is still finding the open shooters. The shooters caan't hit a shot against good teams it seems.
Let me say I am not trying to single out Tim as the problem. He has easily been the most consistent and valuable player on the team, and he is still arguably the best big man in the game.
However, he's slipped to the point where teams no longer have to constantly double him. We saw this against the Mavs in last year's playoffs, and we've seen it this yeah as well for the most part.
In the past, failing to double up on Tim basically meant conceding a 35-40 point night on a great shooting percentage.
Now? Most teams elect to play him straight up and give him his 20 or so on 50% shooting. (They are probably especially thrilled by Timmy's move away from the low-post. He's not going to scare teams shooting jumpers all night.)
What is the result? Fewer open threes for limited offensive players. No more swinging it to the weakside for easy buckets after Timmy is doubled. An entire offense built around Tim's ability to draw double-teams is out of sync.
The Spurs now need more creative ways to get their offense going than just dumping it in to Timmy. They can still give him the ball, and he'll score with a decent percentage. But it doesn't propel the entire team offense.
Now we are seeing how badly the team needs a playmaker. It's now clear how much Tony lacks in this area. For so many years, the respect Timmy commanded from other teams was enough to get the offense rolling. The other players did not have to create as much on their own. Their deficiencies were hidden by Tim. Now they are being exposed.
If the Suns didn't have to constantly double Timmy, for instance, the Spurs would have always lost to them.
It's becoming clear how much Tim means to the team, and his decline on both the offensive and defensive end has been a bigger factor in the team's overall slippage than anything else. The Spurs minus Tim now are probably as good as the Spurs minus Tim have been this decade, if not better (in spite of all the complaints). But not good enough to compensate for Tim's decline.
Parker and Manu can create for themselves. Tim is still finding the open shooters. The shooters caan't hit a shot against good teams it seems.
Tim hasn't been drawing double teams since last season. He's playing great obviously, but considering our system is predicated on him drawing double teams so we can hit the open shooters, this naturally causes a hiccup in the gameplan. The good teams are able to play him straight up allowing the opposition to stay on the shooters thus leading to players like Bonner shooting 35% against the elite.
I don't think people who really understand the Spurs fail to realize that. It's one of the reasons Dallas beat us in 2006. They were willing to let Tim put up huge numbers and take that damage to keep the 3 point shooters from firing. The Spurs study this , and what it boils down to is the most efficient shot in basketball is the corner 3.
What you fail to realize is that while the team revolves around Tim, the offense hasn't since 2007. It's Tony's ballgame now, scoringwise, and one of the main reasons we are struggling is because the little decided it was more important to play for France than rest and work out lightly this summer and come in fresh. He's looked awful this year and is shooting 30 percentage points lower than this time most years, around 47%. That's bad when the team is counting on 50-51% and you're losing games that are coming down to the wire in the 4th.
yeah he doesn't, but he still pretty much owns 95% of the league 1 on 1
I have always considered Tim's face-up game far superior to his low-post play. Don't get me wrong; Duncan's been a monster on the block since day 1, but at his best he would get the ball just between the left block and left elbow, turn around, and attack the basket. I'm sad to see that part of his game retired for too much back to the basket, where his inability to jump can be a problem. I don't know if it's more of age and decreased agility or more of the increased role of Manu and Tony over the past 5 years that has changed that. Or maybe the illegal defense rules being eliminated and the gradual addition of zones has ended the ability to run that isolation play that carried the Spurs in the first half of the decade.
Touche. When I was watching the game against Denver, Timmy was doing everything that he wants against Nene, Martin, and Andersen. If you don't double him up, he's going to torch the other team's bigs for the entire game.
maybe, maybe not.
But I do know that at least in the regular season somehow Bonner is getting open 3-pointers several times a game. Something happens to cause that, doubles on Duncan or penetration or ball movement or whatever. When he bricks them everyone notices but when he makes them no one notices that he had open threes and made them. Somehow George Hill had some open 3 attempts last game too.
Besides, a similarly sized problem could be Tony's total abandonment of the teardrop. I almost made a thread a couple of days ago that was going to be called "Where has the teardrop gone?" but never got around to it.
Sean and the play-by-play guy actually mentioned it last game when Tony did his first of the season. Before that he had one pseudo-teardrop that was more a one-hander normal shot.
He was shooting great and near unstoppable with the teardrop, he could turn the corner and get it up before the shotblocker, it was awesome. Now if he doesn't get to the rim he's pulling up for the long-two, and that's what teams want him to take. Sure, it's great that he's improved, but to bury his bread and butter is a problem and takes away easy scores.
I think you are overlooking the fact that Tim put up very impressive numbers against Dallas in 2006 when they single covered him. He wasn't capable of putting up such numbers in the 2009 playoffs, and he won't be in the future.
Dallas' strategy in 2006 was very risky--far from the obvious thing to do. The Mavs came very close to losing that series. Nowadays, it would not be such a risky strategy, and teams are more encouraged to single cover Duncan.
What you fail to realize is that while the team revolves around Tim, the offense hasn't since 2007. It's Tony's ballgame now, scoringwise, and one of the main reasons we are struggling is because the little decided it was more important to play for France than rest and work out lightly this summer and come in fresh. He's looked awful this year and is shooting 30 percentage points lower than this time most years, around 47%. That's bad when the team is counting on 50-51% and you're losing games that are coming down to the wire in the 4th.
That is a problem. Tony Parker can't create like a Chris Paul or a Steve Nash. Look how inefficient he has been at times running fast breaks, for instance.
You say the offense hasn't revolved around Tim since 2007. Well, then it is no coincidence that the Spurs haven't captured a le since then.
I was especially surprised with this because usually Nene handles Timmy one on one as well as anyone. And TD did pretty well against Perkins in the Boston game, and Perk is one of the better big defenders in the league.
As long as he continues to be so effective, I think teams will have to pick their poison and may be smart to let TD get 20-30 while eliminating open looks for others. Ironically, that strategy has worked for the Spurs in the past with Dirk, Kobe, Amare, and other strong scorers - letting them get theirs while shutting down others. Hopefully the Spurs will have too many weapons for that.
A very good and interesting point (though I don't think it has adversely affected the Spurs as much as Tim's decline).
Not to the same extent as before, and not as consistently as before, IMO.
I agree that the teardrop was very useful and that Parker doesn't seem to be going to it much this year. I'm not sure this is a long term thing though, Parker has seemed out of sorts for a while so far. He was partially back to his normal self early against Denver and I expect as the year moves on he'll get more comfortable and get back to his full bag of tricks.
Of course, this subscribes to the whole "we're out of sorts, working in new guys and working old guys into shape" line of thinking, but I subscribe to that theory.
Yeah your opinion would be then.
He didn't use it too much last year either though. Ever since he worked on and implemented the new jumper, the teardrop has declined into next to nothing. At least that's my memory.
Another thing good about the teardrop is that it kept him from hitting the floor like he does on so many of his layup attempts. He might have the best breakfalls in the NBA but why take the hit if the teardrop was so effective.
in any case it's better than saying his opinion sucks without any substantive refute. what are you in 3rd grade?
edit: i'm not saying that i disagree or agree with what's in your sig, but it's hard to for me to believe that you even know the full extent of their meaning with the analytical skills you've demonstrated. tool.
OP raises an interesting point, and ex and bb answer it pretty well methinks.
I'm not so much worried about Tim as Manu and Tony's driving games, which are both central to our success this decade. Unless they (and/or RJ) find a way to regularly get to the rim, we don't stand a chance.
A very interesting point. I hope the teardrop is something TP uses more when he's playing well, and that we'll see it return soon.
T Park, was that necessary?
Timmy is no longer drawing double teams because teams know they can't sag off on our shooters or the offense will start rolling, it is not because Tim can't draw double teams anymore because he is not good enough. The 3 point shot is a lot more important for every offense and without it, a team would suck, see 76ers.
Depending on how you view it. Yeah he kills you when he's in attack mode but he is a sitting duck on D. The other teams point guards make him look like a statue at times so its a wash in my book.
TP doesn't have a J anymore... that hurts his penetration big time since he has been invited to shoot and faled to deliver since the very beginning of the season...
I think long and hard about not coming with doubles (well at least the Nuggest should) against Tim, declining or not. His numbers from last game were amazing:
10-12 on FG (or 83%) for 26 point in s 35 min.
Yes this is not MVP Tim, but I think teams deciding not to double is more about respecting all out other weapons on the floor among side Tim.
Well, I thought that, in a way, that's the reason we brought in more talent to the team. So we wouldn't need to exclusively depend on what Tim and Tony (and Manu off the bench) could give us, but have a little more diversity out there. So far we haven't. But "It's only December(tm)"...
Yeap.
The new Bogans, Jefferson, McDyess,
the old Bonner, Hill and Mason combined for 8-28 with Denver,
but the problem is that Parker (8-14) has dropped from 51 to 47%.
Briliiant.
It's true team are not systematically double-covering Duncan.
However, Denver stopped single-covering Duncan, as he was absolutely killing them.
It is alo true that when Duncan is given the ball on the low post,
the rest of the team (Manu excluded) just stops and watch:
no movement whatsoever.
Hard to find someone open, even when the double team comes.
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