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To claim that he isn't is a case of a Spur fan livin in the past/being a homer.
offensively of course...undoubtedly too.
To claim that he isn't is a case of a Spur fan livin in the past/being a homer.
Fabricio Oberto (1 NBA championship AND multiple Euroleague championships) > Dirk.
So on the one hand you guys dissect Dwight having no post game but on the other hand we're supposed to overlook the fact that Dirk is an average defender? And Im the homer right.Tim even at this advanced age, with the knee braces, with osteoperosis on his bones, with a 5 inch vertical still impacts the game more. He still has a big impact on both sides of the ball...give me Duncan and his walker over Dirk.
Dirk offense impacts the game a lot more than Dwights D. And I would say Dirks D is a little above average while Dwights offense is just bad, its based on athleticism alone.
And yes you are being a homer if you think Duncan is still better than Dirk.
Dirk has been better than duncan the past 2 years and working on a 3rd right now.
Dirk
Duncan
Pau
KG
Although Duncan and Pau are close.
Well considering that Duncan has a higher career PER than Dirk what tha fack
Dirk and Duncan impact games differently. Different things are required and expected out of them. I honestly thought the quality of Tim's game was going to plummet this season...but it's been extremely impressive what he can do when he's looked at as the #1 option on offense. Duncan has been able to single handedly take over games, and people continue to ignore that he's able to perform at that level. Just look at his stats during the 4-1 series with Dallas. He's not supposed to be capable of that anymore.
This season
Per 36-min
Dirk:
is a 7-footer that is pulling down 7.6 Rebounds
Shooting 47%
Averaging 25.3 pts
with 1.4 blks
Per 36-min
Duncan:
Is averaging 11.4 Rebounds
Shooting 55%
Averaging 21.4 Points
with 2.2 blocks
There's no doubt in my mind that Dirk is more durable. You can put him out there and allow him to be the #1 option day in and day out. Dirk is averaging 9 more minutes per game than Tim. I'll poo poo on him for being a naive German...but Dirk is a beast. That being said, i don't see how it makes someone a "living in the past homer" for thinking that Duncan is on the same level as Dirk. If I give Dirk an edge, it's because he's much more durable... Not because he's outclassing Duncan. From everything i've been reading lately, everyone is trying to stick Duncan in the coffin...and it's certainly not time for that yet.
Good post. And I'll admit, Duncan has impressed me this year, thats why I have him above Pau and KG. But Dirk is the clear #1 in my, and many others, eyes. Dirk defense is no longer a liability, so you can't really point to that as a glaring weakness. And combine that with his obviously more dominating offensive game, and hes having a special year.
I have cringed a bit when I look at Dirks rebounding #'s this year, but only because I know critics will point to that as a big flaw for his great season.
In reality, its more from his team mates just being better rebounders.
Look at last game, Dirk only had 6 boards. Seems bad right? But its not terrible when you see the rest of the starting front court grabbed 33 boards.
I think this team is the best rebounding teams the Mavs have ever had. Kidd and Josh are two guards who love to crash the boards, while Marion and Damps greatest strengths might be rebounding. Dirks teammates are just better rebounders.
If Duncan was taking as many shots as Dirk he would average just as many points, but over the long season it would wear him down.
Last year, I felt Duncan was definitely better than Dirk the first half of the season. Then the load he was carrying wore him down and Dirk remained great, if not improved throughout. Like Jag said, there is the difference.
Spurs have quite a few players like that now, if you count Duncan and Manu.
It's hard for me to disagree with Dirk as the #1, and I respect his game and the mindset that he brings to every game. Dirk's durability allows him to play the kind of minutes that it requires to put up the kind of numbers that he has this season. In that regard he's earned the #1 spot.
I just think people need to recognize that it's still accurate to stick Duncan up there with the elite in this league. It's easy to forget what kind of game Duncan is capable of bringing. And his stats are quite impressive when compared to Dirk's who is having a monster season.
For the Spurs, Duncan is rarely the #1 option, and there are nights when he's even the #5 option behind Parker, Manu, Jefferson, and Hill...and yet he's still putting up the stats I previously posted. Dirk is most times forced to be the #1 option, but he's showing out ...so i give him props.
Dirk still has no post game...maybe he should do what Kobe did and take lessons from the Master, Hakeem Olajuwan
lol
Duncan is still an elite player and it's still permissible to rank him ahead of Dirk. You could make an argument for either one. Duncan is still a ing badass.
Dirk's decrease in rebounding is a product of Marion, Contract year beastmode Dampier averaging a double double, guys like gooden, thomas, and humphries stepping in and producing, and Kidd being the best rebounding PG in the league. Dirk could average double digits easily on most teams.
i dont get this crap
why is it that its "permissible" to rank duncan ahead of dirk, because of his "completeness", but hes not ahead of guys like wade or lebron who are commonly ranked at the top of the league mainly because of their incredible offensive abilities? yeah, they do other stuff as well, like rack up assists or rebounds, but dirk does his share of "other stuff" too.
he might be the biggest single mismatch in the NBA, just because he is basically a 2-guard in a 7 footers body. and its worse than someone like kobe, because at least you can still match up guys like kobe with size and not have to worry about giving it up elsewhere. with dirk, its either you stick a big-man on him, and the middle is wide open or the rebounding massively suffers, or you put a small guy on him, which causes a mismatch in itself, and either causes another mismatch elsewhere on the court, or causes the team to lose size inside again. and no matter who you put on him, he demands a double team if you want any chance of consistently stopping him.
dirk isnt near as bad of a defender as he previously was, and mavs>spurs was right in regards to his rebounding. when you got a team full of good rebounders, its going to cause the numbers for everyone to drop a bit. but whenever dirk needs to, he can beast on the boards too. his anticipation is very commonly overlooked. a lot of players get boards due to athleticism, but he gets his from being so good at judging the right time to go up for it, and it allows him to consistently take away rebounds from people commonly thought of as being superior rebounders.
basketball is a game of matchups, and dirk causes as big of mis-match issues as anyone in NBA history.
Because he's having a terrific season, practically the only Spur carrying his weight and playing up to expectations, and he is still a much better interior defender than Dirk. He's also a traditional big that plays in the post. I think it's possible to win a le with Dirk as your best player, but I'd still take a guy like Duncan for a playoff run. He hasn't lost that much off his fastball.
Put it another way: I don't think the Mavs get worse if you traded them straight up right now. They might even be a little better.
hes still very good, no doubt about it. and yes he is playing well this season, and a better interior defender than dirk, and can play in the post, but hes not what he used to be, thats for sure. he can be contained on a consistent basis with 1-on-1 defense. some people feel its arguable whether or not hes the #1 guy at this point. now i feel he is still the centerpiece of that team, but i think there definitely is question about who the go-to guy is nowadays when the spurs need a bucket. it seems like parker has become the guy the majority of the time the past few years. but dirk is without question the #1 guy on the mavs, and everyone knows it. the only other guy is Terry, and thats only if they wanna throw a curveball, or if the team completely focuses on denying dirk the ball, then terry usually will be open.
again, duncan is still quite good, but dirk is better at this point, and is the guy that opponents fear more, and the guy that torches opponents more. if you need a guy to completely dominate a game for a solid 2-3 minute stretch, dirk is the man, no question about it. dirk > duncan
I was with you until the final sentence. Our offense is Dirk. Thats it really. How many times have we had to just give Dirk the ball and say "here, save our ass."
Duncan can't take over a game offensively like Dirk can.
Yes he can. He rarely scores 30 a game during the regular season. The Spurs don't need him to score 30 a game during the regular season.
no
if that happens, then they will have some SERIOUS offensive issues, because the team already lacks guys who can create their own offense. the way dirk makes teams account for him, it really opens things up. duncan doesnt draw that kind of attention anymore. it might allow terry and howard to get a few more points on their season average, but likely at the cost of efficency, as well as crunchtime execution.
Duncan is still the Spurs best player. And you'll rarely see him go off for 30-35 in a regular-season game, because usually the Spurs don't need him to. He's not the reason that they're only 12-9.
The Mavs would have a low-post scorer and interior defender. They'd adjust. Kidd and Terry are great spot-up shooters, and Marion and Howard would be the beneficiaries of passes off of cuts.
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