Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    7,669
    When it comes to health care reform, the White House and its allies on Capitol Hill seem to live in an alternate universe.

    The White House Council of Economic Advisers just released a report arguing that the reforms before Congress would reduce the growth in health costs, cut the federal budget deficits and produce thousands of dollars in benefits for the average family. The problem is that just a few days earlier a report from the president's own chief health care actuary concluded that the bill the Senate is considering would actually increase U.S. health spending by $234 billion over the next 10 years and hurt seniors' access to care.

    But then, reformers have generally had trouble telling fact from fiction. Among the biggest whoppers:

    acts," John Adams said, "are stubborn things."

    Health care reform will reduce your insurance premiums. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Senate bill does little or nothing to reduce insurance premiums. Even if the bill passes, premiums will roughly double by 2016, and keep rising after that. But for millions of Americans, the Senate bill will actually make things worse. According to the CBO, the bill would actually increase insurance premiums by 10 to 13 percent for Americans who don't receive insurance from their employers and buy their own insurance. These increases are over and above any increases that would occur if we did nothing.

    Middle-class taxes won't be raised. The Senate bill raises at least 15 new or increased taxes totaling more than $493 billion. While some, like the increase in the payroll tax, would primarily hit the wealthy, many would fall solidly on the middle class. For example, the bill includes a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" insurance plans, that is, insurance that is more generous than the government thinks it should be. According to the CBO, roughly 19 percent of workers would initially find their plans subject to the tax. However, because the tax threshold is set to increase at a rate slower than medical inflation, as time goes by more and more middle-class workers will be hit by it.

    Middle-class taxpayers would be taxed in other ways as well. The Senate bill would require everyone to buy a government-designed insurance plan, even if it were more expensive than their current policy. Failure to comply brings a penalty of up to $6,750 for a family of four. If the government took money directly from you, then turned around and gave it to an insurance company, everyone would agree that you've been taxed. How is that any different from the government mandating that you pay the insurer directly?

    You can keep your current insurance. The Senate bill contains an individual mandate, that is, a requirement that every American must purchase health insurance. But not just any health insurance will satisfy that mandate. To qualify, a plan would have to meet certain government-defined standards. Those standards may be more expensive than your current plan, may include benefits you don't want and may even have benefits you are morally opposed to. As noted above, failure to comply brings a penalty of up to $6,750 for a family of four.

    It will only cost $848 billion. It is true that the CBO officially scored the bill as costing $848 billion. But much of the spending is back-loaded. The bill doesn't start spending until 2014, and only costs $9 billion that year. By 2019, the annual cost hits $196 billion. The minority staff of the Senate Budget Committee reports the cost is closer to $2.5 trillion over 10 years once all budget gimmicks are factored out. If you include costs shifted to individuals, businesses and state governments, the price tag could top $6 trillion.

    It will reduce the budget deficit. The CBO does say that the bill would reduce the deficit by $130 billion over the next 10 years (which is less than the deficit the government ran last month alone). However, even that tiny savings depends on budget gimmicks and the willingness of future Congresses to make huge cuts in Medicare spending. In fact, the CBO makes it clear that it will be "difficult" to achieve the predicted savings.

    "Facts," John Adams said, "are stubborn things." As the health care reform debate goes forward, it's worth keeping some of these facts in mind.

    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11054

  2. #2
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,837
    The bolded is pretty hard to believe.

  3. #3
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    7,563
    Isn't the CBO scheduled to have another go at this thing?

    Medical care costs are going up, up, up, with or without this bill.

    The 'cadillac' plans are going to hit union jobs very heavily. I'm surprised that the provision taxing those is still in there after the unions fought it so heavily.

    Does anybody want to start a pool on whether this thing is actually gonna pas or not? I'm thinking it is not gonna happen.

    Anyone else?

  4. #4
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,837
    Does anybody want to start a pool on whether this thing is actually gonna pas or not? I'm thinking it is not gonna happen.
    I might go in with you.

    It might not pass. For months people have been pissing and moaning, treating it as a foregone conclusion. It isn't.

  5. #5
    Veteran
    My Team
    Boston Celtics
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Post Count
    4,675
    The bolded is pretty hard to believe.
    Probably because the bolded statements are false, as the article explains.

    Isn't the CBO scheduled to have another go at this thing?

    Medical care costs are going up, up, up, with or without this bill.

    The 'cadillac' plans are going to hit union jobs very heavily. I'm surprised that the provision taxing those is still in there after the unions fought it so heavily.

    Does anybody want to start a pool on whether this thing is actually gonna pas or not? I'm thinking it is not gonna happen.

    Anyone else?
    I find it hard to believe that they will pass this bill, with the mandates and the excise tax. I can only imagine the face of people opening their mail just to read an insurance bill that they don't need and didn't ask or union members seeing their bills hiked up.

    I find it even harder to believe that Axelrod will risk not passing any bill at all though, so I say by the end of next week.

  6. #6
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    7,669
    They say they would have to work on to Christmas for this to be voted on by the new year. looks good for the politicians acting like they are working hard but don't know if it'll keep 60 there. I wonder how many people are going to pull a burress and pull their vote for some booty?

  7. #7
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Post Count
    32,408
    Well resourced, peer-reviewed article....NOT...

    CATO sucks...

  8. #8
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Post Count
    2,539
    It's going to pass.


    Sucks for old people.

  9. #9
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Post Count
    32,408
    It's going to pass.


    Sucks for old people.
    Of course it's going to pass....and it keeps Medicare afloat for now...so old people benefit again...

  10. #10
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    7,669
    Of course it's going to pass....and it keeps Medicare afloat for now...so old people benefit again...
    Really so in the next three years besides taxes, what will it do to benefit old people?

  11. #11
    Banned
    My Team
    Miami Heat
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Post Count
    7,516
    They still have the 'mandate' to force everyone to buy insurance

    That better not pass.

  12. #12
    The Legend Grows da_suns_fan's Avatar
    My Team
    Phoenix Suns
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Post Count
    4,265
    Interesting that the bill will only reduce the deficit by what we overspent last month.

  13. #13
    Veteran jack sommerset's Avatar
    My Team
    Houston Rockets
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Post Count
    9,221
    They still have the 'mandate' to force everyone to buy insurance

    That better not pass.
    Keep in mind what they wanted. I have no problem with that. Everyone should have insurance. They need to make it affordable for everyone.

  14. #14
    Banned
    My Team
    Miami Heat
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Post Count
    7,516
    Mandating car insurance? Fine, driving is a privilege, not a right.

    You must own a car, pass a driving license test, etc... don't want to pay it? Don't drive.


    BUT health insurance?

    You can't just "stop" living....... it's a DISGRACE.

    MANDATE TO BUY INSURANCE is giving a huge BLOWJOB to the insurance companies.

    Give us affordable insurance, BUT NO MANDATE.

  15. #15
    Veteran
    My Team
    Boston Celtics
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Post Count
    4,675
    Well resourced, peer-reviewed article....NOT...

    CATO sucks...
    Peer-reviewed? Have you ever posted a peer-reviewed paper here?

    So, if the article is so bad, can you tell us what's wrong with it?

  16. #16
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    It will reduce the budget deficit. The CBO does say that the bill would reduce the deficit by $130 billion over the next 10 years (which is less than the deficit the government ran last month alone). However, even that tiny savings depends on budget gimmicks and the willingness of future Congresses to make huge cuts in Medicare spending. In fact, the CBO makes it clear that it will be "difficult" to achieve the predicted savings.
    Not only that, but most the benefits don't start for 4 years. That's the only way they make the numbers work. Tax for 10 years and provide 6 years of benefits. This will be a disaster for the next 10 years!

  17. #17
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,837
    Probably because the bolded statements are false, as the article explains.
    I did not rely upon the article to arrive at similar conclusions myself, so I suppose we agree in a technical sense.

    I find it even harder to believe that Axelrod will risk not passing any bill at all though, so I say by the end of next week.
    Some political advisor, is the man really standing at the political tiller?

    Like Karl Rove, you mean?

  18. #18
    Veteran Spursmania's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Post Count
    8,104
    This bill only benefits the insurance companies and Pharmaceutical companies along with medical device companies. Seriously, buy health insurance stocks and thank me later.

    Even if you can only afford a few shares, do it. They are going to rake it in and premiums will not be contained.

    And, yes! This bill will pass. There is no way Obama will not allow his name to go up in lights on Christmas day when he announces from the WH steps that the so called "meaningful health care bill has passed".

    Meanwhile the bill will suck balls.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •