Who Killed Kurt Cobain?

[In10se]

Eminem is the greatest rapper of all time, his whiny lyrics and temper tantrums on tape speak to the legions of 13 to 30 yr old cry babies who had something bad happen in their lives and want to complain.

[Greg Oden]

We all knew that, so you can stop now.

is that all you ever do when you get mad is change quotes? you're probably #1 at that right behind 2 other posters.

[mookie2001]

ok here are the things we know

greg oden loves nirvana and eminem

we know this

[z0sa]

is that all you ever do when you get mad is change quotes? you're probably #1 at that right behind 2 other posters.

I change quotes to display the actual meaning of posts. Unless you'd like to argue that isn't what you actually mean.

[mookie2001]

zosa should be easy to win this one, its a tap in

eminem? yay or nay?

[Greg Oden]

ok here are the things we know

greg oden loves nirvana and eminem and geto boys and the under ground kings

we know this

that's righ brah. i also love to over use phrases i've been saying since i was 12 like chode bloaded and I saaaaaaaiiiiid etc.

[Greg Oden]

I change quotes to display the actual meaning of posts. Unless you'd like to argue that isn't what you actually mean.

No you keep doing it because you're losing and grabbing for straws. It's ok to lose, you've been doing it all your life. You're probably the #1 loser right behind 2 others.

[Red Hawk #21]

have you ever been loaded up with heroin before? how do you know he couldnt pick up a shotgun. Cobain shot ALOT of H and probably had a MUCH higher tolerance than your average joe dope user. and there were no LEGIBLE fingerprints. meaning there were fingerprints but not enough to identify anyone else. there was probably blood spatter all over it that damaged any prints.

I understand he shot alot of H, and he probably had more tolerance but he had three times the limit of Heroin. He was already a goner the moment the Heroin got in his system. There was no way he could have proceeded to shoot himself after.

Here is a picture of Cobain right after the issue, isn't it funny how there's no blood in the vicinity? The police had NOT cleaned up anything at that point because they were still investigating the scene.

[thispego]

Higher tolerance or not the numbers don't justify even a severe addict being capable.

Degree of Toxicity or Lethality Dose Range
Therapeutic (low tolerance) 3 mg - 4 mg
Toxic (low tolerance) 3 mg - 10 mg
Lethal (low tolerance) 10 mg - 12 mg
Therapeutic (high tolerance) 10 mg - 60 mg
Toxic (high tolerance) 10 mg - 70 mg
Lethal (high tolerance) 75 mg - 80 mg

INTERPRETING THE NUMBERS

The "1.52mg per litre" level in Cobain is one several standard measurements referring to the blood level of morphine. For example, 1.52 mg per litre could also be expressed as "152 mcg per 100 ml," because mathematically they are the same amounts. Those unfamiliar with metric conversions should note that basically, a litre is 1000 ml, so 1 mg per 1000 ml is equivalent to 0.1 mg per 100 ml. Those of you more familiar with metric will note that 100 ml is one-tenth of a litre, thus the abbreviation "dL" stands for "decilitre," which is of course the very same 100 ml. Throughout this report, whenever a source is quoted using a blood drug amount in a format other than mg per litre, I have supplied a non-italicized, bracketed conversion following the quoted figure, eg. "93.0 mcg/dL...(0.93 mg/L, ed.)."

TESTING METHODS ACCURATE

Approximately 25 years ago, it became increasingly clear that accurate postmortem detection of morphine in blood was a problem which had finally been resolved scientifically. Garriott & Sturner, in 1973, note that "With the recent advent of improved methodology for the determination of morphine in the blood...it has now become possible to quan ate small amounts of this narcotic drug metabolite some time after the last previous heroin injection (28)." Nakamura explained in 1979 that "Until recently, the toxicologic determination of heroin death was extremely difficult because of the lack of a sensitive method for the detection and quan ation of small amounts of morphine in postmortem blood and other tissues. " (63). Data is not available regarding the testing method used to determine the level of morphine in Cobain's blood, although the scientific literature suggests strongly that GC (Gas Chromatography) is the current standard method. Other major testing methods exist, such as GLC (Gas-Liquid Chromatography), GC-MS (Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectroscopy), HPLC (High Pressure Liquid Chromatography), RIA (Radio-immuno Assay), and all of these methods have been determined to be very reliable indicators for establishing the levels of morphine in postmortem blood.

HEROIN TURNS INTO MORPHINE

There will be no discussion blood "heroin" levels, because heroin is almost instantly transformed into morphine when it enters the blood. Heroin itself can indeed be measured in the blood and other tissues, especially the urine, but it should be noted that heroin levels are largely irrelevant to this case. Special laboratory conditions are often elaborately constructed to measure these actual "heroin levels," because in everyday life they almost never exist. Again, simply put, when heroin is injected into the blood it rapidly transforms into morphine. There is virtually no heroin left in the blood as "heroin" after about nine minutes, with the heroin going through a deacetylation process, sometimes called de-esterfication. This is known as a "pharmakokinetic" process, and is known to continue after death. Consequently, it is virtually always that morphine, instead of heroin, is measured in the blood of both the living and dead to give forensic scientists an indication of the amount of heroin originally injected, the likely time of injection, and very importantly, an indication as to the events following the injection. Morphine toxicity, whether found in the blood, bile, urine, liver, or other tissues, is the standard measurement for opioid toxicity in general, and heroin in particular, because heroin immediately turns into morphine in the body.

TOLERANCE TESTS IN SEVERE ADDICTS

One study involved a small group of severe addicts who used high doses ranging from 150 mg to 200 mg of morphine four times daily (75). This is equivalent to an intake of approximately 45 mg to 60 mg of heroin, four times daily. These addicts showed some signs of serious effects, but continued for several years without fatality and showing average blood levels of 0.3 mg per liter. Another study points to the potential lethality of even low doses, with 5 fatalities showing an average of a mere 0.021 mg per liter of blood, representing an approximate intake of 3 mg, i.e the average functioning dose. The average person without pain or addiction will overdose with 60 mg of morphine (18 mg heroin), yet a patient in serious pain will likely require the same dose, 60 mg of morphine (18 mg heroin) to relieve such serious pain symptoms. Platt also mentions a particular study where severe heroin addicts were monitored, and the maximum dose seen was a daily total of 260 mg heroin, taken in four divided doses, i.e. 65 mg heroin each dose (75). Again, the maximum lethal dose of heroin is shown to be 75 mg - 80 mg for a 150 lb. severe addict. Such a lethal dose, of about 75 mg - 80 mg heroin, will give the soon-to-be-dead individual a blood morphine level of approximately 0.5 mg of morphine per litre of blood. Astonishingly, this is less than one-third of the level that was found in Cobain's tiny body at least three days after his death.

So he was going to die either from overdosing or a shotty blast to the face. i'd take the latter and be thankful for it

[BacktoBasics]

You're probably the #1 loser right behind 2 others.

[z0sa]

You're probably the #1 loser right behind 2 others.

I separated the joke between two sentences, thus clearly making it a joke if you have any sort of sarcasm detector. Do you need an explanation of sarcasm?

[thispego]

I understand he shot alot of H, and he probably had more tolerance but he had three times the limit of Heroin. He was already a goner the moment the Heroin got in his system. There was no way he could have proceeded to shoot himself after.

Here is a picture of Cobain right after the issue, isn't it funny how there's no blood in the vicinity? The police had NOT cleaned up anything at that point because they were still investigating the scene.

i've got alot of blocks on my work computer and can't view the websites or pictures you're referring to, but i will when i get home

[leemajors]

i liked nirvana when i was 10 or 12, it is pretty telling though 13-18 years later and his music hasnt stood the test of (a very short) time

In Utero is still very solid imo, I still listen to it a couple times a month.

[In10se]

Where do you work? They don't get mad you look at Spurstalk?

[panic giraffe]

Its not, but can you persuade me that it was? Its just not possible for someone who was loaded with up heroin to pick up a gun and shoot himself. And the fact that there were no fingerprints pretty much seals the deal that it was murder. I'd be happy to hear how you think it may have happened though.

i couldn't persuade you anymore than anyone can over the interwebs. but if it's worth anything to you, dude wasn't just loaded on heroin, dude was ALWAYS loaded on heroin. tolerance should count for something. anyone who knows a brief history of cobain knows that on top of his own weak emotional state (which was only weaked more by being married to the worst possible in the world to be married to), he also suffered through migraines and horrible stomach ulcers which he self medicated with the substance he was already addicted to. so the amount of heroin that would floor ordinary mortals would have probably only been a typical breakfast at the cobain household while the wife is out.

i mean if you knew someone who was constantly drunk and pretty much lived with a minimum .16 bac, but you found out they killed themself and was found to have a .10 bac, would you say that they couldn't have shot themself due to being too drunk?

but lets face it...........who cares?
he was supposed to die at that time, its what made that scene go from fad to legendary. if it wasn't him who would be the grunge immortal patron saint, layne staley? that would suck. or maybe weiland would have got the od right and offed himself? that wouldn't have been too bad for the other members of STP. but fate let the right martyr die for the right cause.

think about it...the only good that would have came from him living would be that we wouldn't have ever heard of the foo fighters. because at the other end of the coin, cobain would have had a career just a hair better than chris cornel, which is sometimes hit, more often miss. and that would have been more sad than his death.

[Red Hawk #21]

i've got alot of blocks on my work computer and can't view the websites or pictures you're referring to, but i will when i get home

Yeah you'll see it then. Its a pic of Cobain just lying on the ground, the floor underneath him seems to be completely clean. If someone just got blasted with a shotgun, I would expect a pool of blood or even spatters of blood. But there seems to be no blood in the vicinity...

[Sancha]

cable/mtv, hoe

Why you calling me a hoe you pu o? Because I sleep with a lot of men for money or because I asked you a question about something you posted?

[z0sa]

Greg Oden/Tlong: too stupid to get a joke, or too butthurt?

z0sa 1
Olden 0

[BacktoBasics]

i couldn't persuade you anymore than anyone can over the interwebs. but if it's worth anything to you, dude wasn't just loaded on heroin, dude was ALWAYS loaded on heroin. tolerance should count for something. anyone who knows a brief history of cobain knows that on top of his own weak emotional state (which was only weaked more by being married to the worst possible in the world to be married to), he also suffered through migraines and horrible stomach ulcers which he self medicated with the substance he was already addicted to. so the amount of heroin that would floor ordinary mortals would have probably only been a typical breakfast at the cobain household while the wife is out.

Tolerance has been taken into account. Did you read my post above. He was over three times the lethal dose for a "severe" addict. Not just 3 times a lethal dose but three times a lethal dose taking in to account severe tolerances.

So it wasn't typical breakfast for even the most severe.

[Greg Oden]

I lost badly

I know. So does anyone else who's read this thread.


Spurstalk - 100
zosa - still sitting winless.

[mookie2001]

greg oden isnt tlong, if he is he does a really good job of a acting like a 25 year old from ohio with a new camero and a stepdad that was in the nfl

[Dr. Gonzo]

I've known someone that had a .47 BAC and lived. Not everybody is the same.

[z0sa]

I know. So does anyone else who's read this thread.

Just having the name Greg Oden makes you a monumental failure.

ST spends its time laughing at you lol

[Greg Oden]

Just having the name Greg Oden makes you a monumental failure.

Says the guy who's done nothing but fail his entire life.

[Greg Oden]

I don't know why zosa is surprised he lost. He's still 0 & forever when he gets into arguments. It's not new.