Gasol not Kobe is the real MVP of the Lakers

[Allanon]

Now ive heard it all MArc gasol>Pau Gasol according to Allanon

I didn't say that. I said he WILL be > Pau Gasol overall. Pau has better footwork and much more experience.

Right now, Marc's a better shooter and better defender than his brother Pau.

Marc will never suffer from being called "Gasoft".

[Allanon]

Now ive heard it all MArc gasol>Pau Gasol according to Allanon

I do have a question for you ChrisRichards.

If the Lakers replaced Pau Gasol with Marc Gasol would they still be the favorites?

[chubster]

Dont you think that maybe its the system, coaching staff and Phil jackson himself that makes them all better? not kobe? think about it. phil and his staff designs the plays, he finds a players weakness and uses their strength in the triangle. i mean if kobe is so greeaaat at making his teammates better then why is sasha sucking? why is lamar odom sucking? why is derek fisher sucking?


come on guy, look at all the role players in chicago after they left the championship team, they became obscure and MIA. same with the lakers 3 peat team.


the coach and the system imo has more impact to a player's progression/digression than one particular player unless that player is magic johnson, cp3,john stockton,steve nash,jason kidd etc.


no shooting guard who chucks 23+ fg's is going to make his teammates better.

The system definitely helps because it plays to the players' strength which is post ups and hard cuts.
Outside of Derek Fisher, Lakers don't have a single player who can shoot consistently from outside so that means that they're not your typical inside/outside team like the Spurs or the Magic.

Normally, teams would just pack the lane and let the shooters shoot all day. I mean, who would worry if Odom, Shannon Brown, Vujacic and Artest keep chucking away from the perimeter as long as they keep Gasol and Bynum in check?

Sounds simple enough, right?

Well, it would be that had the Lakers not had one player by the name of Kobe Bryant.
Kobe is so damn dangerous anywhere on the court. When I mean anywhere, I literally mean starting from the key area up to 10 feet behind the 3 point line and anywhere in between.
He will score on you if you let up. If you decide to pack the lane so Gasol and Bynum can't get touches, well, that's just automatic death sentence right there because he will burn his defender 1 on 1 through jumpers or penetrate to draw contacts. The most dangerous part of his scoring aspect is that he does not need his big man to come out and give him screens all the time. He's perfectly happy to beat his defender 1 one 1 for 48 minutes a night and he will. Which perimeter player can do this nowadays? Wade couldn't, James couldn't. They need a lot of high screen to operate.

So now, the opposition coach is faced with a choice of letting Kobe get his while shutting down the post plays or crowd him when he starts attacking from the mid-range. They have made their choice and we can see it todays in games how the oppositions react when Kobe has the ball.

Now, how does this relate to making his teams better? Well, here it is. Since Kobe has to be doubled and tripled team anywhere on the court (sometimes even when he's standing outside the 3 point line), suddenly the other player's strength is magnified. Gasol has the post all to himself, Bynum just stood there with his long arms to dunk the ball, Ariza and Odom cut hard and get the layup or the foul. Fisher and Artest stand around on the perimeter to ensure the defense honest and they've been seeing more open looks than ever in their entire career.

The Lakers system is an awesome one but it relies on one unquestionable foundation which is; Kobe Bryant can not stop attacking from the perimeter. Not for half a game, not for a quarter, not for half a quarter. For the system to work, he has to attract the hardest and nastiest shot the defense can dish out so his teammates (which are also awesome in their own regards) can take care of the rest.

[Brazil]

Allanon

larkers with Marc contenders = yes / favorite absolute as of today = no

[Brazil]

^btw I'm sure we can use the same logic with Kobe

[Allanon]

^btw I'm sure we can use the same logic with Kobe

Playoff team with Bynum & Marc & Pau, yes for sure. But I don't think the Lakers are contenders without Kobe.

It would be Sasha Vujacic as starting shooting guard.

[ChrisRichards]

Barkley said last night on TnT, that Kobe was close to Jordan...."in the backseat."

2 more rings, and he's gonna climb over the seat and shove Jordan right into the street.

tehee culb, tehee

[BRHornet45]

The most dangerous part of his scoring aspect is that all he has to do is run into the lane, scream really loud, and then dramatically throw the ball up in air. freebies from the refs on the way!

there ya go son. I fixed it for you. now THAT is the truth.

[ChrisRichards]

I do have a question for you ChrisRichards.

If the Lakers replaced Pau Gasol with Marc Gasol would they still be the favorites?

Denver would beat them. Boston will beat them. Not a favorite anymore IMO.

[duncan228]

It would be Sasha Vujacic as starting shooting guard.

Speaking of Sasha...

Where in the world is Sasha?
Janis Carr
OCRegister.com

Sasha Vujacic, remember him?

The on-again, off-again “Machine” has mostly been off this month. As in the switch has been turned off by the coaching staff.

Vujacic hasn’t played more than 10 minutes in any game this month, received a DNP against Chicago, and has scored a combined total of 12 points for December. In fact, he has scored just 48 points in 160 minutes all season.

That can’t set well for either side. Vujacic, who signed a three-year, $15-million contract in July 2008, wants to play and not just in garbage time. The coaches apparently have other ideas.

Vujacic has always had a tendency to press when his minutes have decrease, trying to fit 25 minutes of play in 10 minutes on the court. The result usually are bad shots, bad fouls and, in turn, more bench time. And with Kobe Bryant, Shannon Brown and even Jordan Farmar, playing as well as they have, the situation doesn’t look rosy for the Slovenian.

Wonder who will blink first? Will Vujacic demand a trade, or will the Lakers trade him before the February 2010 deadline?

[Brazil]

Playoff team with Bynum & Marc & Pau, yes for sure. But I don't think the Lakers are contenders without Kobe.

It would be Sasha Vujacic as starting shooting guard.

I mean replace Kobe by Pierce, carmelo they are still favorites and replace Kobe by I don't know Iguodala they are still contenders

[Allanon]

Denver would beat them. Boston will beat them. Not a favorite anymore IMO.

Marc Gasol's a whole lot tougher than Pau.

Lakers would actually have an easier time with power teams like the Celtics, Cavs and Nugs.

Finesse teams like the Magic, Suns and Mavs would cause more problems than those teams.

[Mike D]

Trolls run wild in this thread.

[chubster]

there ya go son. I fixed it for you. now THAT is the truth.

I guess it is suitable for someone who has a picture of a preacher on their avatar to spew their words with sanctimony and defamation while at the same time pass it out as the truth of all truth.

[Allanon]

I mean replace Kobe by Pierce, carmelo they are still favorites and replace Kobe by I don't know Iguodala they are still contenders

Pierce, Melo, Igoudala I don't think are good enough. They themselves need to be motivated to play.

There's gotta be a on the team to motivate the under-achievers like Pau, Bynum & Odom.

The Celtics wouldn't have been champs without KG. Lakers wouldn't have been champs without Kobe. You can switch KG, Kobe & MJ and their teams all would have won.

Your Spurs are a different story because there have always been professionals on that team.

[iggypop123]

I guess it is suitable for someone who has a picture of a preacher on their avatar to spew their words with sanctimony and defamation while at the same time pass it out as the truth of all truth.

[Brazil]

Pierce, Melo, Igoudala I don't think are good enough. They themselves need to be motivated to play.

There's gotta be a on the team to motivate the under-achievers like Pau, Bynum & Odom.

The Celtics wouldn't have been champs without KG. Lakers wouldn't have been champs without Kobe. You can switch KG, Kobe & MJ and their teams all would have won.

Your Spurs are a different story because there have always been professionals on that team.

Pierce and Melo would be good enough IMO Iggy no but still the lakers would be a very good team with him instead of Kobe

[Allanon]

Pierce and Melo would be good enough IMO Iggy no but still the lakers would be a very good team with him instead of Kobe

Celtics got taken to 7 games by a Bulls team that might not even make the Playoffs and then lost to the Magic without KG. Celtics without KG lose all of their at ude and confidence because there's no asshole yelling at them

Melo from previous years was an under-achiever and part of the Nugget's immaturity problem.

Melo this year on the Lakers and maybe you're right because he's matured alot.

[ChrisRichards]

Replace Kobe with Pierce and the Lakers are still contenders, same with Brandon Roy,Melo and Joe Johnson. Iguodala, I dont think so because he does'nt have a consistent jumper to make it work ni the triangle.


So, Allanon, If you'll accept the fact that those perimeter players can still make the Lakers the favorites then I wont have any problems accepting Marc replacing Pau would also make them the favorites.

[ChrisRichards]

The system definitely helps because it plays to the players' strength which is post ups and hard cuts.
Outside of Derek Fisher, Lakers don't have a single player who can shoot consistently from outside so that means that they're not your typical inside/outside team like the Spurs or the Magic.

Normally, teams would just pack the lane and let the shooters shoot all day. I mean, who would worry if Odom, Shannon Brown, Vujacic and Artest keep chucking away from the perimeter as long as they keep Gasol and Bynum in check?

Sounds simple enough, right?

Well, it would be that had the Lakers not had one player by the name of Kobe Bryant.
Kobe is so damn dangerous anywhere on the court. When I mean anywhere, I literally mean starting from the key area up to 10 feet behind the 3 point line and anywhere in between.
He will score on you if you let up. If you decide to pack the lane so Gasol and Bynum can't get touches, well, that's just automatic death sentence right there because he will burn his defender 1 on 1 through jumpers or penetrate to draw contacts. The most dangerous part of his scoring aspect is that he does not need his big man to come out and give him screens all the time. He's perfectly happy to beat his defender 1 one 1 for 48 minutes a night and he will. Which perimeter player can do this nowadays? Wade couldn't, James couldn't. They need a lot of high screen to operate.

So now, the opposition coach is faced with a choice of letting Kobe get his while shutting down the post plays or crowd him when he starts attacking from the mid-range. They have made their choice and we can see it todays in games how the oppositions react when Kobe has the ball.

Now, how does this relate to making his teams better? Well, here it is. Since Kobe has to be doubled and tripled team anywhere on the court (sometimes even when he's standing outside the 3 point line), suddenly the other player's strength is magnified. Gasol has the post all to himself, Bynum just stood there with his long arms to dunk the ball, Ariza and Odom cut hard and get the layup or the foul. Fisher and Artest stand around on the perimeter to ensure the defense honest and they've been seeing more open looks than ever in their entire career.

The Lakers system is an awesome one but it relies on one unquestionable foundation which is; Kobe Bryant can not stop attacking from the perimeter. Not for half a game, not for a quarter, not for half a quarter. For the system to work, he has to attract the hardest and nastiest shot the defense can dish out so his teammates (which are also awesome in their own regards) can take care of the rest.

Thats too much to dissect ill get back on you later, but I do think that its not KOBE that primarily gives his teammates the opportunity, its the system.


Triangle is an equal opportunuty offense, Tex made some revisions of course but the way they give players spacing while putting them in their proper spots makes the players effective NOT KOBE.


Thanks

[Allanon]

Replace Kobe with Pierce and the Lakers are still contenders, same with Brandon Roy,Melo and Joe Johnson. Iguodala, I dont think so because he does'nt have a consistent jumper to make it work ni the triangle.


So, Allanon, If you'll accept the fact that those perimeter players can still make the Lakers the favorites then I wont have any problems accepting Marc replacing Pau would also make them the favorites.

I don't have a problem with Melo since he is at a Kobe level this year. These are your 2 MVP candidates this year. Dirk probably (if he were a SF or SG) and Nash/CP3 are tempting too.

DWade is having a down year and apparently out of shape and LeBron's too busy dancing.

Pierce, Roy & Joe Johnson are not self-motivated enough to influence mellow guys like Pau, Bynum and Odom to over-achieve. And none of them have enough of Ron's respect to keep him in line.

[Brazil]

Celtics got taken to 7 games by a Bulls team that might not even make the Playoffs and then lost to the Magic without KG. Celtics without KG lose all of their at ude and confidence because there's no asshole yelling at them

Melo from previous years was an under-achiever and part of the Nugget's immaturity problem.

Melo this year on the Lakers and maybe you're right because he's matured alot.

For Melo I agree I'm speaking about the today Melo. For Pierce, I'm speaking about a Pierce with a 100% healthy lakers team, I think they still are favorites to win it all. Your example of the bulls is not a good one because precisely KG wasn't there.

I think a Pierce Fisher Bynum Artest Gasol and Odom squad would be favorite to win it all and Pierce is clever enough to work well on the triangle offense. Other question we can raise is: how better boston would be with Kobe instead of Pierce ?

[chubster]

Thats too much to dissect ill get back on you later, but I do think that its not KOBE that primarily gives his teammates the opportunity, its the system.


Triangle is an equal opportunuty offense, Tex made some revisions of course but the way they give players spacing while putting them in their proper spots makes the players effective NOT KOBE.


Thanks

You're basing your argument on cliches on rehashed phrases. Do you even know what "equal opportunity" means? Do you think "spacing" just appear out of thin air because something you draw on the chalkboard?

Phil Jackson don't point to a spot and say "Go there and you'll have your space!". That's non-sense.
Spacing in basketball comes after you're able to disrupt the defense and make them rotate into positions they're not comfortable with.

[Allanon]

how better boston would be with Kobe instead of Pierce ?

The best team for Kobe is one like the Lakers, a bunch of under-achievers who he can drive to over-achieve. Every major Laker player has had a weak past but now are playing great with Kobe so we forget about their old flaws.

Boston with Kobe would probably win a championship easily before they killed each other in the summer. This is even worse than ShaqKobe.

Kobe doesn't work with other asshole Superstars like KG and he hates Ray Allen.

Nice guy like Duncan + Kobe would probably have won 10 rings in a row.

[Allanon]

Speaking of Sasha...

Where in the world is Sasha?
Janis Carr
OCRegister.com

Sasha Vujacic, remember him?

The on-again, off-again “Machine” has mostly been off this month. As in the switch has been turned off by the coaching staff.

Vujacic hasn’t played more than 10 minutes in any game this month, received a DNP against Chicago, and has scored a combined total of 12 points for December. In fact, he has scored just 48 points in 160 minutes all season.

That can’t set well for either side. Vujacic, who signed a three-year, $15-million contract in July 2008, wants to play and not just in garbage time. The coaches apparently have other ideas.

Vujacic has always had a tendency to press when his minutes have decrease, trying to fit 25 minutes of play in 10 minutes on the court. The result usually are bad shots, bad fouls and, in turn, more bench time. And with Kobe Bryant, Shannon Brown and even Jordan Farmar, playing as well as they have, the situation doesn’t look rosy for the Slovenian.

Wonder who will blink first? Will Vujacic demand a trade, or will the Lakers trade him before the February 2010 deadline?

The Machine is actually well known because he's on the Lakers. If he were on the Bucks, we wouldn't even know who he is. No way he's asking out of LA.

He does seem to be coming around this year, he'll get back in Phil's graces and hit a couple of big shots (1 semi big shot a couple weeks ago was a good start).