Kobe doesn't want to be like Mike, he wants to be better

[Allanon]

Which would you rather have?

Pippen...not for skills but because of at ude...Kobe/Pippen never would have broken up the show.

Kobe/Pippen probably never could have 3-peated, but they would have gotten 5-6 championships over 10 years.

Shaq was superior in skills but never could get along with another superstar.

[21_Blessings]

Shaq was superior in skills but never could get along with another superstar.

And he gained like a 100 pounds of pure donut fat.

[hitmanyr2k]

Your logic is emotionally flawed. When has Kobe put up crap numbers in the finals and won? It's never happened. Sure he's lost 2 finals but has more than enough time to make up for it. I know you're ting bricks because he's about to surpass MJ in les but records are meant to be broken. MVP's are selected by the media it has nothing to do with actual performance. Sure MJ was great but he was insanely beloved by the media (they accepted him gambling and cheating on his wife and all)..Kobe hated by the media because he's a legit threat to MJ's legacy so go figure...of course MJ would have more MVP's which is a MEDIA'S PICK AWARD SIMPLE AND PLAIN...NEVER did MJ have to play in the Shadow of perhaps the Biggest Name and Biggest FREAK OF NATURE that has ever stepped on an NBA court. Shaq Oneal. Say what you want but if MJ had played with a Shaq in his prime he'd be exactly in Kobe's situation. Those Lakers 3 peat teams were built around Shaq not Kobe but when it was time to actually win them Kobe was on the court leading them to victory with Shaq in foul trouble. Now that the Lakers are "truly building" around Kobe (and not incubating) for the past 2 years they've been to the finals...So judge Kobe if you must just rememeber that he's 31 with 4 rings and MJ won his last when he was 36...So if Kobe wins out to MJ's age that leaves him with 9 rings.

I see you protect "your" facts with blinders on to the real situation because if you'd opened your ing eyes you would have saw that. Of course MJ will have better numbers than Kobe he never played with a domineering and jealous ball dominant center...MJ would have had the same issues with Shaq that Kobe did. I think Kobe's numbers with Shaq is more impressive than MJ because of the simple fact that he did it with Shaq on the team and he didn't let the NBA's (at the time) most dominant alpha male shape and decide his future. That's more impressive than what MJ did in my opinion.

Oh boy, here we go. Blame the media. That's what your whole argument amounts to. Blame the media. Give me a in break with this bull

First of all you ask when has Kobe put up numbers in the Finals and won? Try the 2000 Finals. Dude had one good game that entire Finals. And even after that good game the next game he puts up 8 points on 4-20 shooting...eight freakin points. That entire playoff run Kobe mixed good games with horrible ones. He was inconsistent but it didn't matter in the end. He had a HOF center putting up 38ppg and 16 rebs and killing Indiana's frontline so it was all good.

Secondly, I don't feel sorry for Kobe because he had to play behind a HOF center and win les at an early age which resulted in him being put on a pedestal above all the other SGs at the time You act like Kobe is a damn victim or something. His early success is the ONLY reason you're talking about him in the same breathe as Jordan right now. Go ahead and blame Shaq and the "cir stances"

And all I see from you are "what ifs" and conjecture. Jordan would have done this. Jordan would have done that. You don't have a crystal ball kid so give it up. Facts are facts. Mike won more, Mike did it better. End of story. Quan y and QUALITY are on Jordan's side. Choke on it.

[KidCongo]

Whats up with Bean's 3 ball this year?

[F_U_Buddy]

Oh boy, here we go. Blame the media. That's what your whole argument amounts to. Blame the media. Give me a in break with this bull

First of all you ask when has Kobe put up numbers in the Finals and won? Try the 2000 Finals. Dude had one good game that entire Finals. And even after that good game the next game he puts up 8 points on 4-20 shooting...eight freakin points. That entire playoff run Kobe mixed good games with horrible ones. He was inconsistent but it didn't matter in the end. He had a HOF center putting up 38ppg and 16 rebs and killing Indiana's frontline so it was all good.

Secondly, I don't feel sorry for Kobe because he had to play behind a HOF center and win les at an early age which resulted in him being put on a pedestal above all the other SGs at the time You act like Kobe is a damn victim or something. His early success is the ONLY reason you're talking about him in the same breathe as Jordan right now. Go ahead and blame Shaq and the "cir stances"

And all I see from you are "what ifs" and conjecture. Jordan would have done this. Jordan would have done that. You don't have a crystal ball kid so give it up. Facts are facts. Mike won more, Mike did it better. End of story. Quan y and QUALITY are on Jordan's side. Choke on it.

I'm not choking on ...my arguments are valid if you want to compare a retired player with one that has another 7-8 years left be my guess...just bring your monkey ass back around here when my boy hangs is hat up...Jordan's legacy is coming down and Kobe will stick it to him...When it's all said and done Kobe will be the new logo of the league...and MJ a thing of the past...So shut the up reminisce if you must and watch this mutha er named Kobe Bryant.....

and counting

[hitmanyr2k]

I'm not choking on ...my arguments are valid if you want to compare a retired player with one that has another 7-8 years left be my guess...just bring your monkey ass back around here when my boy hangs is hat up...Jordan's legacy is coming down and Kobe will stick it to him...When it's all said and done Kobe will be the new logo of the league...and MJ a thing of the past...So shut the up reminisce if you must and watch this mutha er named Kobe Bryant.....

and counting

Dry your tears son. Your arguments are beyond lame. Keep looking in your dumbass crystal ball or calling the psychic hotline or whatever it is you do to come up with an argument and keep your fingers crossed

[djohn2oo8]

I'm not choking on ...my arguments are valid if you want to compare a retired player with one that has another 7-8 years left be my guess...just bring your monkey ass back around here when my boy hangs is hat up...Jordan's legacy is coming down and Kobe will stick it to him...When it's all said and done Kobe will be the new logo of the league...and MJ a thing of the past...So shut the up reminisce if you must and watch this mutha er named Kobe Bryant.....

and counting

Slurp, Slurp, Slurp....U through yet?

[F_U_Buddy]

Dry your tears son. Your arguments are beyond lame. Keep looking in your dumbass crystal ball or calling the psychic hotline or whatever it is you do to come up with an argument and keep your fingers crossed

You do realize how ing pathetic you look right...we're ing winning les right this very ing moment I type and your lame ass is riding a boat that has previously sailed...Memo: Magic was to us as is MJ is to CHI-town...Magic was our MJ memory...but we've made adjustments since then and now refocused on 2009-2010....but who am I am to take away your smiles keep those MJ years burning son it must be cold as in Chicago right now with that current squad Kobe just shat on...I'd be ing holding on to that MJ candle my dam self.

[hitmanyr2k]

You do realize how ing pathetic you look right...[/B]

Sorry son but I'm not the one throwing a tantrum like your last post. You pretty much made yourself look like an emotional 7 year old who didn't get his way. Your "blame the media" arguments are just stupid. No matter how much you cry and try to deflect from it that's just the way it is.

[024]

lol at this argument. kobe is not even the best or second best player of his generation. if you must start a team with any prime player of this generation who would it be? honestly, without the media hype, it would be:

1. tim duncan
2. shaq
3. then kobe bryant

if jordan was thrown into the mix, he would, without question, go above duncan and shaq.

i would also like to point out duncan is the only player in the modern era to win a championship as the lone all star. so it goes jordan > duncan > shaq > kobe.

[jag]

The more times Laker fan says it, the closer it comes to being true.

Just keep saying it to everyone you know Laker fan...

"Kobe is getting closer and closer to being the GOAT!!!"

"Kobe is getting closer and closer to being the GOAT!!!"

"Kobe is getting closer and closer to being the GOAT!!!"

"Kobe is getting closer and closer to being the GOAT!!!"

[mojorizen7]

Nonsense. Kobe has a publicized meeting with Olajuwon and now suddenly people are drinking the koolaid. Cmon lol. There's nothing Kobe is doing in the post now that Jordan hadn't done for years man.

And I'm not throwing out the accolades and all that because that's what separates the two players. Accolades show consistency at being the best. You can't throw out 5 MVPs and 6 Finals MVPs as if they mean nothing. That's what makes Jordan the measuring stick for SGs. It's nice to talk about skills and all that but it's how you maximize those skills and the results. Jordan maximized his skills with a great b-ball IQ and the results were 6 championships. Once he learned how to win the man took that knowledge and never stopped winning. Kobe went backwards. The more championships the Lakers won it seemed the dumber he became. Kobe was a gunner, not a leader.

And that's another thing. You have to look at quality WITH quan y. Meaning, yeah there's a possibility Kobe may end up 6 rings but in context to how he won those rings he still won't be able to touch Jordan's legend. Jordan won 6 championships as bonafide numero uno. He never won no damn championship putting up 21 ppg on 44% shooting (mixing good games with horrible ones) like Kobe. Mike never won a ring putting up crap numbers in the Finals. Kobe has though. Jordan's playoff numbers all over Kobe's in every single way possible. He has quality and quan y on his side. And also the fact that he never lost one battle on the big stage. Kobe has not only lost in the Finals he's done it in embarrassing fashion stringing together some of the most putrid games you'll ever see from a superstar not named Lebron James.

I know Laker fans don't want to hear that but those are just the facts man.

Rack 'em

I still like to pull out the defense card when comparing these two great players. The trophies are slightly in MJ's favor but anyone who actually watched the games knows that it wasn't very close when comparing the attention these two players gave to playing defense. When it came to making big plays on "D", MJ was superior.............and then there's the rufusal to lose mentality.
MJ
1 time DPOY
9 time ALL-defensive 1st team
-------------------------------
Kobe
7 time All-defensive 1st team
2 time ALL-defensive 2nd team

[MiamiHeat]

kobe was not deserving of the all-defense 1st team last year.

[Allanon]

Kobe couldn't win without Shaq.
Check. 2009.

Kobe is a ballhog
Check. GM's voted Kobe #2 Leader in the NBA

Kobe isn't clutch
Check. Kobe's added 2 more game winners than MJ this year.

Kobe isn't as good defensively
Check. Kobe's got 7 1st Defensive First teams and counting.

MJ made the game popular.
Check. Kobe has made the game Global.


The excuses are running out while the rings & Finals MVPs will keep piling on.

Kobe has a realistic shot at 7-8 rings with a possible 10 rings.

MJ is still the GOAT but Kobe is only a couple more rings and awards from the conversation.

[phyzik]

Kobe will NEVER reach Jordans level, nevermind surpass it.

this is coming from someone who absolutely HATES MJ.

When it comes to Basketball:

Kobe is a phenom

Jordan is a god

ther is no ing debate here.

[KidCongo]

MJ made the game popular.
Check. Kobe has made the game Global.

Kobe hasn't made the game global, just because his jersey is the most sold in China or something doesn't make him the reason it's global. Countries having their best players drafted and becoming stars in the NBA make it global.

[Allanon]

Kobe hasn't made the game global, just because his jersey is the most sold in China or something doesn't make him the reason it's global. Countries having their best players drafted and becoming stars in the NBA make it global.

It's not just in China.

Asia in general is owned by Kobe.
Europe is owned by Kobe.

You can ask the euro posters who the biggest non-native NBA star is in their country.

All these kids growing up around the world playing basketball want to "Be like Kobe". When a kid in Kazikstan is wearing a Kobe jersey, you know he's had a huge impact. Kobe's the most recognizable sports figure in the entire world.

[21_Blessings]

The original Dream Team made the game global.

Kobe is just expanding that exponentially, especially in China.

[Rogue]

The original Dream Team made the game global.

Kobe is just expanding that exponentially, especially in China.

Kobe is only liked by pubertal girls in China and the only reason is he's probably one of the nicest looking players in NBA. Yao is, or sadly, was kind of a flag but there really hadn't be anyone in China who really liked him due to his bad looking and feminine body shape. I mean no one likes him as a person in China and the only reason he once was liked had nothing to do with what he was, but what he did. Too some degree he was beyond the en y of a human being in the viewpoints of most Chinese people, instead he was just like some landmark than represented this country like "great wall" etc...

It's quite common not only to China but any other foreign country that the "best player" always gets considered the whole Sport he plays in, since foreigners generally don't know so much about the American sports as you americans do. To a considerable amount of Chinese people, Jordan was the only NBA player they knew in 90s and the NBA games remained kind of a blank to us since Jordan left this game, until Yao entered NBA to get our interest revived, and gradually many chinese fans fell in love for this game. You americans may pretty well love the team located in your hometown or the closest to it. Chinese fans naturally used to take Houston Rockets as our team for the reason of Yao but we've turned hobos since Yao done. We need to continue our love for this game and Kobe is well regarded as the current best player in NBA, that's why naturally he's become kind of a fan favorite but anyway Kobe has never touched and won't ever get to the bar of love Yao used to live at.

[HarlemHeat37]

There is literally no possible argument that favors Kobe over Jordan..you would have to reach to extreme depths to pull something out that would even put Kobe in the same sentence..his stats don't match, his individual accolades don't match, his winning doesn't match, and he doesn't pass the eye test..he has nothing going for him in this argument..

Kobe has ONE MVP award and ONE Finals MVP award..ONE..yes, one..he's barely beating me in both categories..

[wireonfire]

The laker fans are dumbass homers.

Jordan >> Kobe, period.

[Culburn369]

Ain't a "period" no more. Kobe is loitering the crypt where Jordan was laid to rest.

2 more rings in-a-row...then we're gonna have us a time.

Let us proceed...

[ChrisRichards]

1. Playoff PPG All Time

2. PPG All Time

Kobe will never be as good as MJ was.

Next off is the following:

Also, Kobe in the finals. This is how they performed in the finals.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colum...zillgitt_x.htm

In 35 Finals games, Jordan averaged 33.6 points, 6.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists a game on 48% FG
In 30 Finals games, Bryant has averaged 24.6 points, 5.2 rebounds and 5.3 assists a game on 41% FG

Also MJ has 5 finals in the top 15 all time with all 6 in the top 26 and Kobe has 0 finals performances in the top 50 and has a all time top 10 worst finals performance.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/playoff...Performances-2

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...ormances-Worst




MVP's - Jordan = 5; Kobe = 1
les - Jordan = 6 (as the #1 Option and best player); Kobe = 1 (as the best player on team) 3 (2nd best player on team)
Finals MVP's - Jordan = 6; Kobe = 1
DPOY - Jordan = 1; Kobe = 0
Scoring les - Jordan = 10; Kobe = 2
Career PPG - Jordan = 30.1 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0
Playoffs PPG - Jordan = 33.4 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0
Playoff Points - Jordan = 5987 - Most Ever Points (179 games); Kobe = 4381 (175 games)
FG% - Jordan - 50% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
Playoff FG% - Jordan = 49% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 27.91 (highest ever); Kobe = 23.64
Playoff PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 28.59 (highest ever); Kobe = 22.04
Steals - Jordan = 2.4 SPG Career (with 3 Steals les); Kobe = 1.5 SPG
Blocks - Jordan = 0.8 BPG Career (most blocks ever for a guard); Kobe = 0.6



Here were the requirements
NBA ALL-TIME LEADERS:
(All statistical records + playoff records + career averages + playoff averages + MVPs + Finals MVPs + Rings + All-1st teams + All-1st Defensive Teams + All-star games + All-star MVPS)
This is how it broke down each category:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baske...ree-team_x.htm

This is how it broke down each category:
NBA MVP awards won (five points each)
NBA championships won (five points each)
All-Star Games selected to play in (one point each)
All-NBA first-team selections (two points each)
All-defensive first team (one point each)
NBA Finals MVP awards (two points each)
All-Star MVP awards (one point each)
Individual statistical les (two points each) — restricted to points, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and free throw percentage, the stats the league has used the longest
Career averages (six points each) — if a player is the NBA career leader in scoring average, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage or free throw percentage
Career playoff averages (five points each) — for each category the player leads

That was the criteria used
1st Place: MJ, 149 total points
2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points
3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points
4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points
5th Place: Magic, 102 total points
Now adding up the current players you get (Active Players):
1st Place: Shaq, 87 total points
2nd Place: Tim, 74 total points
3rd Place: KB, 66 total points

To show the greatness of MJ he never has had a playoff series where he was outscored nor has he ever had a series where he averaged less than 26.6 ppg. Also MJ averaged over 31+ ppg in every playoffs after his rookie year (where he averaged 29.3 ppg in his rookie year)

Jordan's playoffs career average is: 33.4 PPG / 6.4 RPG / 5.7 APG / 2.1 SPG / 0.9 BPG / 49% FG / 28.59 PER