Was Jesus wealthy?

[Pero]

It is the nature of all mankind, whether devoted to God or atheist, to aim to succeed and to work hard to ac ulate wealth.

Did you read this in the capitalist edition of the Bible?

[Drachen]

Did you read this in the capitalist edition of the Bible?

Ill admit, that this is slightly funny, but I agree to the point that it's in man's nature to strive for success. The definition of success, however, is different from person to person, though here in the states (and in many places), the tangible definition of success is in your bank account.

When I was in high school, I did an internship at the VW plant in Puebla, MX and one of the guys working in my office was part of the rotary club and was giving a speech in english about the definition of happiness. He wanted to run it by me, so he started out asking me how I defined happiness. I thought for a while, then told him I believed the definition of happiness was to be content. That knocked him off guard and he told me that couldn't be true, then gave up as an example those people living in huts on the outskirts of Mexico city with nothing but their god and few material possesions. I told him that if they were content with where they were at in life, and that was all that they needed or wanted, then I could see them being happy. I personally would not be happy in such a situation, but they might be. I further explained that contentedness does not mean resting on your laurels. Some people are completely content meeting challenge after challenge. So the constant flux in their life brings them happiness.

[PixelPusher]

Did you read this in the capitalist edition of the Bible?

They're still in the process of rewriting and editing that version of Bible.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon...the-bible.html

[angel_luv]

Ok, but that supports the donation of wealth rather than the ac ulation thereof. Also, many of those mentioned in this thread (Olsteen, Hagee, etc). Are wildly rich even after donations of their wealth.

Which supports what I am telling you: You cannot outgive God.

More amazing to me than the individual success of men like Pastors Olsteen, Hagee, and T.D. Jakes is that the people in their congregations are greatly blessed and successful as well.
The Biblical principles by which they live are not just benefiting the pastors, but are helping everyone who will adhere to them.

It is just like in the days of Israel before Pharoah would listen to Moses and release the Israelites.

God's people had light while everyone else was left in the dark.

Exodus 10:23- " They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings."

[angel_luv]

Did you read this in the capitalist edition of the Bible?

Drachen knew what I meant, as I suspect did you.

[Drachen]

Which supports what I am telling you: You cannot outgive God.

More amazing to me than the individual success of men like Pastors Olsteen, Hagee, and T.D. Jakes is that the people in their congregations are greatly blessed and successful as well.
The Biblical principles by which they live are not just benefiting the pastors, but are helping everyone who will adhere to them.

It is just like in the days of Israel before Pharoah would listen to Moses and release the Israelites.

God's people had light while everyone else was left in the dark.

Exodus 10:23- " They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings."

This will be an unresolvable point of contention between the two of us. You are (in my opinion), putting the cart before the horse. Those who attend these churches are wealthy, and live extravagant lifestyles. The normal doctrines state that perhaps some of that extravagance could be forgone in order to help your fellow man. This makes them feel bad because they are unwilling to change. If they go to a church where the leader of that church is taking home over a million dollars a year and preaches (through word or deed) that it is ok to live such a lifestyle and that god wants the followers to lead extravagant lifestyles as an example of what can be had, that person is going to stay at that church because they feel comfortable. Even if all other things were equal (the teachings, etc.) which I believe they are not, I would rather my money be donated to a church where the preacher takes enough to live comfortably (30-50k) every year and sends the rest to help those who don't have those means, than to go to a church where the preacher takes enough to feed a small town for a year for him/herself then send the rest to those who don't have those means.

[Solid D]

While I agree with the notion that a person cannot outgive God, I do question Mr. C. Thomas Anderson and his motives. The faux Biblical justifications he is using for the points in the article are way off base, in my opinion.

I've already addressed his erroneous reasoning regarding the Magi's gifts to the "King of the Jews" and the donkey that was never mentioned in the Biblical accounts of Jesus birth. I would also submit that the more likely reason Roman soldiers were casting lots for the clothes of Jesus was that Jesus had been dressed by King Herod in one of his "elegant robes" in order to mock him. That elegant robe Herod dressed Jesus in was probably quite valuable.

8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased, because for a long time he had been wanting to see him. From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform some miracle. 9He plied him with many questions, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 The chief priests and the teachers of the law were standing there, vehemently accusing him. 11 Then Herod and his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him. Dressing him in an elegant robe, they sent him back to Pilate. (Luke 23 8-11)

[Drachen]

While I agree with the notion that a person cannot outgive God, I do question Mr. C. Thomas Anderson and his motives. The faux Biblical justifications he is using for the points in the article are way off base, in my opinion.

I've already addressed his erroneous reasoning regarding the Magi's gifts to the "King of the Jews" and the donkey that was never mentioned in the Biblical accounts of Jesus birth. I would also submit that the more likely reason Roman soldiers were casting lots for the clothes of Jesus was that Jesus had been dressed by King Herod in one of his "elegant robes" in order to mock him. That elegant robe Herod dressed Jesus in was probably quite valuable.

8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased, because for a long time he had been wanting to see him. From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform some miracle. 9He plied him with many questions, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 The chief priests and the teachers of the law were standing there, vehemently accusing him. 11 Then Herod and his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him. Dressing him in an elegant robe, they sent him back to Pilate. (Luke 23 8-11)

Damn, good pickup there Solid.

[angel_luv]

Fair enough.

In the end, only God knows everyone's entire situation and only He can judge the intent of peoples' hearts and the true merit of their actions.

My faith has been encouraged by both Pastor Joel Osteen and especially by Pastor T.D. Jakes, so I will always be grateful to the two of them.

[angel_luv]

I appreciate your insight in regard to Jesus' robe, Solid D. I had never thought of that before.

[angel_luv]

The comments by the man in the article are pure garbage. First of all, in the Matthew (Chap. 2) account of Jesus' birth, it says:
1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."

These men brought treasures to worship what they thought would be an earthly KING. Their gifts weren't given because the baby was actually rich, they were given because the givers thought they were coming to worship a KING that would inherit an earthly kingdom.

I thought the man in the article was saying due to the gifts from the Magi, that Jesus had wealth- due to the monetary value of the gifts.

I didn't read the statement to mean that Jesus was given gifts because he was already wealthy.

But perhaps I misunderstood.

[Duff McCartney]

While I don't believe in any of this bull , I do respect the out of Joel Osteen. Not for his doctrine, but because he's had to defend himself as a Christian preacher for saying that Jesus is not the only way to god, and that there are many paths to god and salvation. He caught an enormous amount of flak from fellow Christians.

That's nothing than what most Christian preachers would say, and I respect him for saying that.

[Solid D]

I thought the man in the article was saying due to the gifts from the Magi, that Jesus had wealth- due to the monetary value of the gifts.

I didn't read the statement to mean that Jesus was given gifts because he was already wealthy.

But perhaps I misunderstood.

You may be right about that, angel_luv. I had read a couple of other articles written about Anderson that made me think in those terms.

I'm sure Joseph was able to provide for his family since he was a carpenter, but Jesus' entire premise in his ministry was not based on building up a treasure here on earth. I mean, Jesus actually told some of his disciples, as well as, the rich man who had kept all of the commandments since he was a boy and otherwise lived a good life, that they needed to sell ALL of their possessions and to give to the poor (Luke 12:32-34, Mark 10:20-22).

When Jesus sent out the seventy to various towns, he told them not to take a purse or a bag or sandals and then later he reminded them of how God had provided and given them what they needed. Jesus' ministry was not based on building up a treasure here on earth, while Anderson has morphed that ministry into saying things like this: "Dr. Anderson says the Body of Christ has learned to he and give offerings and to expect God to meet our every need, yet we only have enough for the day. We must learn how to make money enough for the future as well as today. God is not going to drop abundance out of heaven, and we can’t pray for someone to just give us money. We need to learn the attributes, qualities and skills to become wealthy." http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bi...son112006.aspx

[Das Texan]

No man of God i.e. a preacher should live in the Dominion or any other multi million dollar community when your livelihood is derived from the people you preach to. They preach that they are giving to help out the poor and those that need the help, not for the new BMW for the preacher and his wife.

Hagee is a piece of anyway, but thats another story for another day.

[lefty]

Who cares if Jesusdenazareth was wealthy?

He's a rockstar anyway

[boutons_deux]

Debating on the literal accuracy of minutiae of the (allegorical, 100s-of-years-after-the-fact) Bible is silliness-on-earth.

The entire Bible-is-literally-true scam is just a power play by pastors to solidify their own roles as (self-appointed, self-aggrandizing, self-enriching) authoritative interpreters of the Bible, scare-mongering dictators of what their sheeple should think and how they should act.

[I. Hustle]

No man of God i.e. a preacher should live in the Dominion or any other multi million dollar community when your livelihood is derived from the people you preach to. They preach that they are giving to help out the poor and those that need the help, not for the new BMW for the preacher and his wife.

Hagee is a piece of anyway, but thats another story for another day.

I agree and disagree with this. Who is to say exactly where the money comes from? Sure it may hve started off as from his congregation but many of these Pastors are businessmen. They write books, sell copies of their sermons, start businesses, invest, etc.

Some Pastors had money before going into ministry. I don't agree with the ones that buy luxury cars and multimillion dollar homes when the whole of their income is from their congregation BUT if they work hard and find other ways to keep money coming in then why shouldn't they enjoy it?


I get upset about this stuff sometimes since I am a PK.

[I. Hustle]

Debating on the literal accuracy of minutiae of the (allegorical, 100s-of-years-after-the-fact) Bible is silliness-on-earth.

The entire Bible-is-literally-true scam is just a power play by pastors to solidify their own roles as (self-appointed, self-aggrandizing, self-enriching) authoritative interpreters of the Bible, scare-mongering dictators of what their sheeple should think and how they should act.

I find it funny that people like you lump ministers together but then get upset when you are lumped in a group.

[angel_luv]

While I don't believe in any of this bull , I do respect the out of Joel Osteen. Not for his doctrine, but because he's had to defend himself as a Christian preacher for saying that Jesus is not the only way to god, and that there are many paths to god and salvation. He caught an enormous amount of flak from fellow Christians.

That's nothing than what most Christian preachers would say, and I respect him for saying that.

I have watched many of his church services on television and never have had any indication that Pastor Joel Osteen believed like that. Do you have any quotes from Pastor Joel Osteen to that effect which you can post?

[SAGambler]

No man of God i.e. a preacher should live in the Dominion or any other multi million dollar community when your livelihood is derived from the people you preach to. They preach that they are giving to help out the poor and those that need the help, not for the new BMW for the preacher and his wife.

Hagee is a piece of anyway, but thats another story for another day.

Boy you said a mouthful there. Talk about a hypocrite. How anyone buys his bull is beyond me.

"That's not MY new Mercedes. That's GODS new Mercedes. He just loaned it to me."

[Duff McCartney]

I have watched many of his church services on television and never have had any indication that Pastor Joel Osteen believed like that. Do you have any quotes from Pastor Joel Osteen to that effect which you can post?

"Osteen has received much criticism from many in the Evangelical community. After a 2005 appearance on Larry King Live, he was accused of not clearly affirming that Jesus Christ is the only way a person can reach Heaven. He stated repeatedly that only God knows a person's heart, but that as a believer in the Christian faith he believes in an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ."

He did later try to backtrack, but I'm pretty sure the only reason he did was because of pressure and not because he truly believes it. That's why I respect what he said.

[boutons_deux]

"you are lumped in a group"

I don't get upset, I laugh the ignorance, like yours.

There are plenty of sincere, authentic, intelligent, emotionally adult Christians. Some are my best friends.

[I. Hustle]

"you are lumped in a group"

I don't get upset, I laugh the ignorance, like yours.

There are plenty of sincere, authentic, intelligent, emotionally adult Christians. Some are my best friends.

Ignorance like mine? How so?
I was talking about this

"The entire Bible-is-literally-true scam is just a power play by pastors to solidify their own roles as (self-appointed, self-aggrandizing, self-enriching) authoritative interpreters of the Bible, scare-mongering dictators of what their sheeple should think and how they should act."

My dad is a Pastor and you lumped him in that group. I was talking about him and not myself.

[benefactor]

It's kinda pointless to argue this...as one who disagrees will probably get nowhere with someone who is sold on the idea(no pun intended) that Jesus wants all of us to be rich. It all goes back to the ability to twist the Bible and make it sound however you want it to sound.

I have thrown a lot of theology out the window. Occasionally I will still get sucked in to a discussion, but overall I stay out of them because they are fruitless. IMO, churches should concentrate on two things...finding ways to reach out the community in practical ways and finding ways to help those within the church connect with one another so that no one has to bear any sort of burden alone.

[ploto]

It is the nature of all mankind, whether devoted to God or atheist, to aim to succeed and to work hard to ac ulate wealth.

I do not agree with this at all. My definition of success has nothing to do with the ac ulation of wealth.