Was Jesus wealthy?

[MiamiHeat]

He may not have been financially wealthy...

but He had friends. Many friends.

and that, is priceless.

Amen.

[4down]

Nothing says living the high life like not eating a donkey.

I'm not one to decry prosperity either, but I don't think a lack of material wealth would be an indicator that God doesn't like you. The rich Jesus idea seems to be a justification of holding on to all the wealth you can. It seems to be a different type of morality.

I can't remember exactly where ut was written, but I remember C.S. Lewis writing in one of his books that people should give just enough that they would start to worry about their own well being. Many would say that is too much risk to take on, and others would say they are already at that point. I don't know how far I would take that myself, to be honest, but I do think there is wisdom in giving to that point. Not saying anyone should be forced to give, either - it should be a willing choice.

[ploto]

And why would it shock you that God takes pleasure in giving His children their dream car, college scholarships, and fulfilling the dreams in their hearts?

The vital gifts I give my child are not monetary in nature, nor are the most important gifts I get from God. They are compassion, understanding, mercy, and forgiveness.

I don't pray to God to give me stuff; I have enough stuff. I pray for Him to make me content in all things.

"I have learned, in whatever situation I find myself, to be self-sufficient. I know indeed how to live in humble cir stances; I know also how to live with abundance. In every cir stance and in all things I have learned the secret of being well fed and of going hungry, of living in abundance and of being in need. I have the strength for everything through him who empowers me."

As for a college scholarship or a car, I teach my child to work for those.

"If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask Him!" Matthew 7:11

The beginning of Matthew Chapter 7

Stop judging, that you may not be judged.

For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.

Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?

How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye?

You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.

The measure is not financial giving but the giving of mercy to others.

[angel_luv]

I don't pray to God to give me stuff; I have enough stuff. I pray for Him to make me content in all things.

Yes, and all the stuff you have came from God. So without you even praying for material blessings, God gave them to you.

As for a college scholarship or a car, I teach my child to work for those.

And God gave man the ability to work so again, the source of everything we are and acquire is God.




Deuteronomy 8:18- But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.


You cannot take God out of the equation. God most certainly gives.
The question is how much do you believe God is willing to give you? What is your measure of faith? What are you willing to ask for?

Granted if God answers a request, " No" as He sometimes does, one's faith and contentment level should not vary.

But, just as loving parents are not offended by their child's desires of and request to them, I am confident God does not mind us asking for material things- so long as we make sure to seek relationship with Him first.

[ploto]

What is your measure of faith? What are you willing to ask for?

This is the whole problem with the prosperity Gospel-- trying to question a person's faith who does not use it to ask for material wealth. I have more important issues to address with God than the kind of car I drive. This notion contributes to all these people who buy things they can not afford because some preacher tells them they should have faith that God will provide.

What am I willing to ask for-- mercy, forgiveness, peace, joy, friendship, patience, perseverance, love, gentleness, meekness, wisdom, understanding, and courage.

But, just as loving parents are not offended by their child's desires of and request to them, I am confident God does not mind us asking for material things.

Again, I do not agree, My kid knows better than to ask me to give him certain things. I have raised him not to be materialistic. We have higher priorities. I am far more concerned with peace in my heart than money in my bank account. I believe it cheapens the Grace of God to focus on it as if He were Santa Claus and you are some kid asking Him to bring you stuff. I need "things" from God that are far more important than the ones that money can buy. I choose to spend my time asking Him to help me acquire those.

[angel_luv]

This is the whole problem with the prosperity Gospel-- trying to question a person's faith who does not use it to ask for material wealth. I have more important issues to address with God than the kind of car I drive. This notion contributes to all these people who buy things they can not afford because some preacher tells them they should have faith that God will provide.

What am I willing to ask for-- mercy, forgiveness, peace, joy, friendship, patience, perseverance, love, gentleness, meekness, wisdom, understanding, and courage.



Again, I do not agree, My kid knows better than to ask me to give him certain things. I have raised him not to be materialistic. We have higher priorities. I am far more concerned with peace in my heart than money in my bank account. I believe it cheapens the Grace of God to focus on it as if He were Santa Claus and you are some kid asking Him to bring you stuff. I need "things" from God that are far more important than the ones that money can buy. I choose to spend my time asking Him to help me acquire those.

I can see why the Bible tells us to each work out our own salvation.

Thank you for sharing your views with me. Though we do not agree, I appreciate the benefit of your perspective.

One part of your response struck a cord with me:

My kid knows better than to ask me to give him certain things.

I do not understand this mindset in a parent. My parents, my mom especially, were firm in how they raised me and particular about what they allowed, but I never once felt restricted in what I could ask them or request from them.
And for that, I am very thankful.

As someone who plans to be a parent, I would feel so sad to think there was anything my kids did not feel at liberty to broach with me, though I would also hope to raise them to handle disappointment well when faced with it.

I might not be able or willing to give my future kids everything they want, but I would always want to know what they desired, if only to know them better.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how many ppl do you know that owns a donkey compared to jesus?

[ploto]

I do not understand this mindset in a parent. My parents, my mom especially, were firm in how they raised me and particular about what they allowed, but I never once felt restricted in what I could ask them or request from them.

My child gets all the love and support he needs, but there are many material things he does not need and would never ask me for. He sees how I live my life, and he has the decency and respect not to ask for things to be handed to him. Likewise, I would have never gone to my parents asking for certain material things when I saw how they sacrificed for me and my siblings. If my son comes home telling me about one of his teachers who supports a foundation that raises money to educate kids in Africa, and he asks, then I am happy to give him money. If a group of kids are raising funds to buy goats for a village, I am happy to contribute and he knows that. He would never come home and say, "I want an iPhone."

He knows the difference between needs and wants. In your own passage from Matthew, Jesus uses the analogy of a child asking a parent for a fish or a loaf of bread- life's necessities. As a parent, know also that kids gain satisfaction out of earning things for themselves. Even if you can afford it, it is better for them to earn some things and have the good feeling that comes from that than to have it handed to them. They also come to value hard work and learn money management. Parents rob their kids of the knowledge that they are self-sufficient and capable.

I still find it interesting that every one of your responses goes back to material things and does not address higher needs. Aren't you more concerned with granting your kids your understanding, patience, and forgiveness than with giving them a new car for their 16th birthday? I drive a 9-year old car. My kid would never ask for a new car. That does not make me sad; that makes me joyful that he respects me and understands our priorities.

[Drachen]

My child gets all the love and support he needs, but there are many material things he does not need and would never ask me for. He sees how I live my life, and he has the decency and respect not to ask for things to be handed to him. Likewise, I would have never gone to my parents asking for certain material things when I saw how they sacrificed for me and my siblings. If my son comes home telling me about one of his teachers who supports a foundation that raises money to educate kids in Africa, and he asks, then I am happy to give him money. If a group of kids are raising funds to buy goats for a village, I am happy to contribute and he knows that. He would never come home and say, "I want an iPhone."

He knows the difference between needs and wants. In your own passage from Matthew, Jesus uses the analogy of a child asking a parent for a fish or a loaf of bread- life's necessities. As a parent, know also that kids gain satisfaction out of earning things for themselves. Even if you can afford it, it is better for them to earn some things and have the good feeling that comes from that than to have it handed to them. They also come to value hard work and learn money management. Parents rob their kids of the knowledge that they are self-sufficient and capable.

I agree, I had to put up $60 of the $100 for my first nintendo. I was 7. Remember this was $60 in the 80's. I saved my allowance ($5 a week), and mowed my neighbor's lawn until I had enough money. I don't remember many of my toys, or who I got them from as a child, but I most certainly remember the day I came home from the store with a nintendo and how I got it.

[ploto]

I agree, I had to put up $60 of the $100 for my first nintendo. I was 7. Remember this was $60 in the 80's. I saved my allowance ($5 a week), and mowed my neighbor's lawn until I had enough money. I don't remember many of my toys, or who I got them from as a child, but I most certainly remember the day I came home from the store with a nintendo and how I got it.

I would say that your views in the job hunting thread are no mere coincidence.

[Drachen]

I would say that your views in the job hunting thread are no mere coincidence.

I would have to say that this is probably a logical assumption. lol.
I have kick ass parents.

[angel_luv]

I still find it interesting that every one of your responses goes back to material things and does not address higher needs. Aren't you more concerned with granting your kids your understanding, patience, and forgiveness than with giving them a new car for their 16th birthday? I drive a 9-year old car. My kid would never ask for a new car. That does not make me sad; that makes me joyful that he respects me and understands our priorities.

To me, the virtues- patience, compassion, mercy etc. - part is understood between us in this discussion because that is not a point of Christianity on which we differ.

We both believe God grants us virtues, the question being debated here is: Can we/ should we expect physical, non- essential blessings from God?

You don't know me to know that I am not at all materalistic. I guess I take that for granted and I shouldn't.

One of my mom's frustrations with me growing up is that I never asked for things so she never knew what I might enjoy as a gift when it came to Christmas or my birthday.

When it came to my wedding this summer, I was doing everything I could to save money because my mom paid for my wedding and I did not want her generous nature to cause damage to her limited income.

I am not at all suggesting that one should ever try to take advantage of God or their parents or anyone's generous nature.

But I also feel it is important that people know what a loving, giving, wonderful, generous God that God is.

It goes back to my planning my wedding. I knew that Mom would spare no expense to make that day special to me. Out of love back to her, I stuck to a budget and shopped for bargains.
But it did something great in my heart and strengthened my relationship to realize how eager my Mom was to bless me.

If Mom with her human limitations is so generous towards me, how much more so giving is God's heart towards me!

And knowing how much God loves and blesses me, makes me want to greatly love and bless others- to pay it forward, so to speak.

[tlongII]

Whoever dies with the most toys wins the game of life!

[Sancha]

Whoever dies with the most toys wins the game of life!

You would be winning so far then. You have more toys than anyone I know. You have double the amount of "toys" that i have.

[ploto]

I do not question His generosity. I question my need.

There is a vast difference between a parent being generous and a parent being indulgent.

[ploto]

I am curious for those who espouse the prosperity Gospel as to what your role is in creating your path to prosperity. In other words, what responsibility do you have to educate yourself or to seek training that increases your ability to prosper financially? If you think this is an important part of life, then what do you do to work toward it? Or do you simply expect it to fall in your lap?

The reason I ask is that studies have been conducted on the relationship between being of a lower educational and socio-economic status and being a follower of the prosperity gospel. It has been suggested that maybe this is because it offers hope to the poor but some wonder if it contributes to their staying poor-- that is, because they are less likely to seek actively the means to improve their earning potential themselves.

I do not want to appear as if I am piling on AL, but she is the one willing to support it here publicly. I know that I spoke with you a few years ago about attending college or some sort of training, but you never have, as far as I know. You still work a hostess job and at the mall, and that is fine if you are not expecting to grow much financially, but you seem to expect economic prosperity. Do you think that your belief has made you less likely to work yourself toward that goal?

[angel_luv]

I do not want to appear as if I am piling on AL, but she is the one willing to support it here publicly. I know that I spoke with you a few years ago about attending college or some sort of training, but you never have, as far as I know. You still work a hostess job and at the mall, and that is fine if you are not expecting to grow much financially, but you seem to expect economic prosperity. Do you think that your belief has made you less likely to work yourself toward that goal?

Sorry for my late reply. I was not ignoring you Ploto. I just am not online nearly as much as I used to be.

I work at the mall and the Spurs because it pays my bills while allowing me to pursue ministry opportunities at my church .
I have prayed about new jobs but thus far have not felt God releasing me from my current ones.
I feel like I am doing the work God wants me to be doing at this point of my life.

I also know I will not be here forever. I can be patient knowing that God is directing my steps and when it is time to make a change, God is going to walk me through it and into my next stage of success. And so on and so on.


I graduated from Bible college with a desire to be in church ministry and since then have been volunteering to that end-writing for church newsletters, assisting with youth activities etc.
Eventually, I would love to take in foster children and raise them along with Bo's and my biological children, when God blesses us with them.

True, compared to many, I don't make a lot of money. But even with my entry level jobs, I always have money to pay all my bills and give to my church and still have money left over.
I view that as God greatly prospering my life.

I am living a debt free and blessed day to day existence in an economy that is bleak. I am prospering BECAUSE God is blessing me.

My goal has never been financial wealth. I love the apartment Bo and I live in and only want a big house someday so I can fill it with foster children.

I am grateful to be debt free because that frees my mind from worry, allowing me to focus on pursuing ministry opportunties instead of having to work all the time to make ends meet.

I believe that wisdom ought to play a part in all we do. I don't expect to be able to live debt free if I carelessly go out and spend more than I make.

But I do know from my own life experience that as I seek first God and walk in obedience to Him that abundance and blessings are regularly poured out in my life.

[Blake]

How did he make all his money?

He used to put on a of a magic show. He even provided a complimentary fish and bread buffet for the thousands in attendance.

[I. Hustle]

For the most part this thread is very cordial and well thought out. I am impressed.