Kobe does it again. Are you suprised?

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm gonna back up on my stance that there's no argument of out of bounds..I haven't seen a good angle yet, but it still looks like he's out of bounds..it's arguable..

LOL @ the latest argument.."Kobe's stats don't matter, because if you ask people, they'll say he's the most clutch"..

[HarlemHeat37]

The study you are talking about takes into consideration the last 4 or 5 mins of the game. Kobe is not a percentage shooter... he is a volume shooter. In the last shot of the game, win or lose, I'll take Kobe. Isn't it interesting that Melo, LeBron, Carter, Wade, the olympic coaches and survey of GM's all agree. But hey, you know so much more so....

But hey... you keep thinking

Uhh..so Kobe is a volume shooter, but those other guys aren't?..cop out..please, just admit the numbers don't support it..

Obviously people think Kobe's the most clutch..I used to believe that too, but how can you argue with numbers?..obviously perception is changed when you're constantly reminded of Kobe's GW shots..he has a lot of them, so it sticks out in people's minds..obviously they don't show most of the misses in the highlights..perception can be tricky..

numbers are facts..do you disagree?..

[cobbler]

I'm gonna back up on my stance that there's no argument of out of bounds..I haven't seen a good angle yet, but it still looks like he's out of bounds..

LOL @ the latest argument.."Kobe's stats don't matter, because if you ask people, they'll say he's the most clutch"..

Touchee.... and CLASSIC!

[milkshakeballa]

Kobe benefits from entertainment and memorable moments..he's a great player, top 10 all-time, but his legacy comes from the media more than it does from his actual accolades..

i was going to destroy this argument with a vengeance until i saw it harlem.

this troll is not worth my time....







hey harlam......




enjoy kobe's nuts in yo mouth

[ElNono]

LOL @ Kobe 'the most feared'...

[Medvedenko]

Uhh..so Kobe is a volume shooter, but those other guys aren't?..cop out..please, just admit the numbers don't support it..

Obviously people think Kobe's the most clutch..I used to believe that too, but how can you argue with numbers?..obviously perception is changed when you're constantly reminded of Kobe's GW shots..he has a lot of them, so it sticks out in people's minds..obviously they don't show most of the misses in the highlights..perception can be tricky..

numbers are facts..do you disagree?..

Thanks, move on.

[HarlemHeat37]

Laker fans come really weak with their arguments..

LOL @ grandma's boy saying he was going to destroy me in an argument..



I need a close up though..

it looks like I might have been wrong though, he might be in..too hard to tell..

nice shot though, he needs to boost his clutch shot %s, they're weak..

[cobbler]

Uhh..so Kobe is a volume shooter, but those other guys aren't?..cop out..please, just admit the numbers don't support it..

Obviously people think Kobe's the most clutch..I used to believe that too, but how can you argue with numbers?..obviously perception is changed when you're constantly reminded of Kobe's GW shots..he has a lot of them, so it sticks out in people's minds..obviously they don't show most of the misses in the highlights..perception can be tricky..

numbers are facts..do you disagree?..

NO. And i stand by my comments. Over the last 5 mins you can give "most clutch" to Bron, Melo, Carter... whoever you wish. Last shot of the game... win or lose.... it's Kobe and pretty much everyone in the basketball world agrees on this. When I think of clutch... I am thinking LAST SHOT, not last 5 mins.

Move on Moron.

[tlongII]

I see why Sergio doesn't play at the end of games for defensive purposes. That was terrible!

[Killakobe81]

My bad only 3 gamewinners but he had dagger jumpers against OKC, bulls GSW to "ice" the game

Noit saying stats don't matter ... (if directed at me) but again I saw one that shows he has hit the most shots (and yes probably taken the most) since 2002 or something like that ...point is stats are stats they can be manipulated or "juked" (shout out to the WIRE greatest show ever) however you want ...
Kobe is the best "close" (last secong shot taker/maker) in the game right now I can live with his miss more than anyone else ... after him I take maybe Dirk or melo those are the 3 best offensive players becasue they have post jumpers and can hit FT's or 3's late ...
Despite the numbers if Wade or Lebron is taking a 3 or dep 2 late you have won ...beacsue their strength is the paint and FT line ...(though Lebron sucks at FT's)

[Medvedenko]

Laker fans come really weak with their arguments..

LOL @ grandma's boy saying he was going to destroy me in an argument..



I need a close up though..

it looks like I might have been wrong though, he might be in..too hard to tell..

nice shot though, he needs to boost his clutch shot %s, they're weak..

For a second there I didn't know you're a Spur fan.....you must be young, like very young as you probably haven't seen Kobe work over bowen and the spurs throughout the years. That's ok. You're in for a treat watching Kobe. It's nice to see you care.

[Kori Ellis]

Usually when people are pulling out stats (82games.com, popcornmachine.net, etc) about clutch, they are talking about under 5 minutes to go with a score differential of 5 or less.

But I agree with the Laker fans -- that's not the same clutchness as one shot with the game on the line. Are stats for those shots -- gaming winning shots -- anywhere? I would think Kobe and Carmelo would both be up there at the top.

[Killakobe81]

the comedy of this thread and similar ones is you guys says he is not clutch ... (numbers) but use THOSE same STATS for the last 10 games or so. Even with his crap game on XMAS I bet over the past 10 games or so he would be most clutch with the same stats (criteria)so even if you say he wasnt BEFORE This season you would have to ADMIT (unless you are just a HATER) that Kobe has been the most "clutch" this season at least ...or you won't becuase he quit in game 7 vs. phoenix?

And I agree with Kori Im sure Melo is up there too ...but for this year I bet it's Kobe ...

[cobbler]

Usually when people are pulling out stats (82games.com, popcornmachine.net, etc) about clutch, they are talking about under 5 minutes to go with a score differential of 5 or less.

But I agree with the Laker fans -- that's not the same clutchness as one shot with the game on the line. Are stats for those shots -- gaming winning shots -- anywhere? I would think Kobe and Carmelo would both be up there at the top.

I think Melo would be right there as well. I'll have do do a little searching.

[Xylus]

From that one viewpoint, it looks like Kobe is out-of-bounds, but the camera is a little too far away to tell. Also, not a great angle.

[Gutter92]

good thing kobe doesn't set moving screens

[Kriz-Maxima]

I don't think that's a foul and it looks like he is on his toes, therefore not out of bounds. Perhaps if Sergio had focused on defending instead of trying to get a foul he could have bothered the shot or even the catch.

Very nice shot.

[LnGrrrR]

Nice shot, nice win.

[Man In Black]

Again, it's hoops, that move was straight out of Rucker Park. A classic, shoulder and elbow push-off to clear Rodriguez. Why he falls 8 feet away to give BM such a clear look? Who knows. The skycam would've been nice though to verify the feet.

[Def Rowe]

It's real close but if you look closely you can see, and Westfall can see that Kobe stayed up on his tippy toes enough.

[mogrovejo]

Usually when people are pulling out stats (82games.com, popcornmachine.net, etc) about clutch, they are talking about under 5 minutes to go with a score differential of 5 or less.

But I agree with the Laker fans -- that's not the same clutchness as one shot with the game on the line. Are stats for those shots -- gaming winning shots -- anywhere? I would think Kobe and Carmelo would both be up there at the top.

Data sample
Regular Seasons: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08, '08-09 (thru 2/4)
Playoffs: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08

Leading "Game Winning Shot" Players
1. Lebron James, 17 Winning shots made, 34FG%
2. Vince Carter, 16 Winning shots made, 31FG%
3. Ray Allen, 15 Winning shots made, 39FG%
4. Kobe Bryant, 14 Winning shots made, 25FG%

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

As I always say, History won't be kind with Kobe. Hype never survives the test of time.

[Medvedenko]

Data sample
Regular Seasons: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08, '08-09 (thru 2/4)
Playoffs: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08

Leading "Game Winning Shot" Players
   Player Fgm Fga Fg% Ftm Fta Ast T/O     League Wide 853  2858  .298 610  815  352  296     LeBron James 17  50  .340 14  20  6  4     Vince Carter 16  51  .314 10  11  3  4     Ray Allen 15  39  .385 4  6  1  2     Kobe Bryant 14  56  .250 12  15  1  5     Carmelo Anthony 13  27  .481 7  11  1  4     Allen Iverson 13  33  .394 6  8  1  2     Ben Gordon 12  34  .353 6  6  1  4     Dirk Nowitzki 12  37  .324 13  18  1  3     Joe Johnson 12  45  .267 2  3  4  2     Paul Pierce 11  32  .344 15  17  9  3     Dwyane Wade 11  40  .275 13  17  3  2     Jamal Crawford 11  43  .256 4  6  3  3     Rashard Lewis 10  26  .385 10  13  0  1     Ricky Davis 10  28  .357 11  11  2  1     Antawn Jamison 9  16  .563 2  5  0  1     Pau Gasol 9  18  .500 4  6  1  4     Steve Francis 9  22  .409 4  5  2  2     Tim Duncan 9  23  .391 6  7  3  1     Gilbert Arenas 9  28  .321 18  18  0  4     Michael Redd 9  30  .300 8  14  0  1     Tracy McGrady 9  32  .281 8  8  3  1     Kevin Garnett 9  33  .273 3  3  1  0     Hedo Turkoglu 8  16  .500 2  3  3  3     Derek Fisher 8  20  .400 2  2  2  1     Chris Paul 8  21  .381 3  4  5  1     Mike Bibby 8  22  .364 2  2  6  1     Richard Hamilton 8  22  .364 4  4  3  3     Andre Iguodala 8  22  .364 10  11  2  3     Jason Terry 8  26  .308 2  3  5  1     Mehmet Okur 7  15  .467 4  4  1  0     Zach Randolph 7  17  .412 6  8  0  0     Brandon Roy 7  19  .368 3  4  3  1     Baron Davis 7  22  .318 4  4  4  2     Raymond Felton 7  24  .292 4  5  2  1     Travis Outlaw 6  7  .857 3  5  0  0     Carlos Boozer 6  9  .667 1  1  0  1     Jalen Rose 6  10  .600 4  5  0  4     Josh Smith 6  11  .545 3  3  0  2     Grant Hill 6  12  .500 0  0  0  0     Damon Jones 6  12  .500 1  1  1  0     Caron Butler 6  13  .462 6  7  1  1     Damon Stoudamire 6  13  .462 0  0  4  1     Kevin Martin 6  14  .429 2  3  0  0     David West 6  15  .400 2  2  0  1     Tyronn Lue 6  16  .375 4  6  0  0     Shawn Marion 6  16  .375 2  2  1  0     Tony Parker 6  16  .375 0  0  4  0     Tayshaun Prince 6  17  .353 2  2  5  1     Deron Williams 6  17  .353 3  3  5  1     Yao Ming 6  18  .333 9  10  0  1     Richard Jefferson 6  19  .316 3  4  2  1     Chris Webber 6  19  .316 0  0  1  1     Manu Ginobili 6  21  .286 4  7  3  4     Chauncey Billups 6  37  .162 18  19  6  2     Eddy Curry 5  7  .714 2  2  0  0     Peja Stojakovic 5  8  .625 1  1  1  0     Kevin Durant 5  14  .357 1  1  1  0     Rudy Gay 5  14  .357 3  4  0  1     Danny Granger 5  14  .357 0  0  0  0     Mike James 5  15  .333 3  7  2  0     Ron Artest 5  16  .313 1  1  2  3     Stephen Jackson 5  20  .250 1  1  4  2     Rasheed Wallace 5  30  .167 2  2  0  2     Ronald Murray 4  4  %1.000 5  6  0  1     David Lee 4  5  .800 0  0  0  0     Andrew Bogut 4  6  .667 0  0  2  1     P.J. Brown 4  7  .571 0  0  0  0     Udonis Haslem 4  8  .500 0  0  0  1     James Posey 4  8  .500 1  1  1  1     Michael Finley 4  9  .444 2  2  4  1     Devin Harris 4  10  .400 0  0  1  0     Larry Hughes 4  10  .400 4  4  3  4     Eddie Jones 4  11  .364 0  1  2  0     T.J. Ford 4  15  .267 1  3  3  2     Mike Miller 4  20  .200 0  2  2  2     Jermaine O'Neal 4  22  .182 4  4  1  0

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

As I always say, History won't be kind with Kobe. Hype never survives the test of time.

Are you ing kidding me....he could have retired 4 years ago and his legacy would have already been cemented. How re ed do you have to be to denounce the best player since Magic. Please.

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks for the stats. Carmelo was about what I expected. Kobe -- I thought his percentage would be higher than it is (but I knew it would be below Carmelo). The funny one to me is "Mr Big Shot" with .162.

Those stats are just through Feb 09 though. So I think Kobe's numbers might be a little higher now.

[ffadicted]

Unreal shot, but idk guys, he kinda looked out of bounds

[mogrovejo]

Btw, Carmelo Anthony has perhaps the most impressive numbers: 13 winning shots in a .481FG%. Amazing. Gasol and Turkoglu also have excellent numbers, but Jamison is probably the most underrated clutch shooter in the NBA: 9 winning shots in 56% FG.