Kobe does it again. Are you suprised?

[Man In Black]

The Kings didn't make their case on the court and off it. Spurs players and coaches point like Hounds chasing a Fox when line issues come to play. It's possible that Westphal knows he ain't going to get any further consideration since his team had multiple chances to win the game.

I would love to see a definitive overhead shot but it's not a playoff game and there wouldn't be as many cameras because it's not oh and it's the Kings. When the Spurs play there, there had better be more cameras :flag

[HarlemHeat37]

Great post as usual from mogrovejo..

that was what I was looking at as well..as you can see, Lebron and Vince have almost the same amount of attempts on significantly better %s..other guys have lower attempts, but significantly higher %s..

there's a chance Kobe has gone up, I doubt it would be by a huge margin though..

my perception argument is even more legit when you look at Billups..he has a nickname that doesn't fit at all..I actually think his clutch stats have gotten even worse since last year, since I remember him missing some clutch shots in the last year with people joking about how he's supposed to be "Mr. Big Shot"..

[Kriz-Maxima]

The funny one to me is "Mr Big Shot" with .162.

I expected something like that, which is why I hated that nickname.

[badfish22]

His was wide the open. I've seen better from Kobe Bryant.

[BadOdor]

Gotta remember kobe spent about 4 years with bums like kwame/walton/smush, being double/triple teamed and still taking the shot. Now that he has fish and other teammates he can trust, it takes some heat off him, and as you can see he is making those shots.

[usdane]

Haters will always hate. No sense in trying to argue with them Lakers Fans.
They just wish they had him on their team and who can blame them.

Stats are funny when you are selective like from 2003 to early 2009 hater quoted; come on man. Here is 27 game winners from kobe. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sv4MNTXDgE

Meanwhile we can enjoy another win, the best record in the league and the 3rd buzzer beater from Kobe in the past 29 days.

[BLACKMAMBA24]

Seeing Hawes and Casspi's reactions after all that talkin was priceless.Good game by the young Kings though.

[cobbler]

Data sample
Regular Seasons: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08, '08-09 (thru 2/4)
Playoffs: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08

Leading "Game Winning Shot" Players
1. Lebron James, 17 Winning shots made, 34FG%
2. Vince Carter, 16 Winning shots made, 31FG%
3. Ray Allen, 15 Winning shots made, 39FG%
4. Kobe Bryant, 14 Winning shots made, 25FG%

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

As I always say, History won't be kind with Kobe. Hype never survives the test of time.

There is criteria for those numbers.

They are taken in the last 24 seconds (if a player made the tying or go ahead shot at 22 seconds and the opposiong team takes a shot later and actually wins the game the previous shot was still considered a game winner)

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.


Why use this definition?

With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised.
Obviously though this definition means a shot may not actually be a game winner -- it may only tie a game (if down two points) or it may allow enough time for the opponents to get a game winning shot of their own. Still it seems a reasonable compromise.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm


Those numbers are also not up to date...

[Killakobe81]

Dude I just saw one on True Hoop (i'll find it) a few weeks back that had Kobe with most game winners the articel where HE criticized Kobe as the "most" clutch player ...
My point is that stats can be "juked" for example I dont care what stats say ... when I'm facing an opposing team Paul Pierce has to be considered in most clutch (ray allen too) and that was BEFORE the FINALS MVP ...

[mogrovejo]

Game winning assists + Game Winning shots:

LeBron James - 23
Paul Pierce - 20
Vince Carter - 19
Ray Allen - 16
Joe Johnson - 16
Kobe Bryant - 15
Mike Bibby - 14
Carmelo Anthony - 14
Dwyane Wade - 14
Chris Paul - 13
Chauncey Billups - 12
Steve Nash - 11
Jason Kidd - 10

[usdane]

Game winning assists + Game Winning shots:

LeBron James - 23
Paul Pierce - 20
Vince Carter - 19
Ray Allen - 16
Joe Johnson - 16
Kobe Bryant - 15
Mike Bibby - 14
Carmelo Anthony - 14
Dwyane Wade - 14
Chris Paul - 13
Chauncey Billups - 12
Steve Nash - 11
Jason Kidd - 10

Really!! I got 27 game winners by Kobe right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sv4MNTXDgE

with the one tonight that makes it 28.

[mogrovejo]

Really!! I got 27 game winners by Kobe right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sv4MNTXDgE

with the one tonight that makes it 28.

Which part of

Data sample
Regular Seasons: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08, '08-09 (thru 2/4)
Playoffs: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08

you don't understand?

[cobbler]

Really!! I got 27 game winners by Kobe right here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sv4MNTXDgE

with the one tonight that makes it 28.

I remember reading something last year where he passed Jordans 26.

[cobbler]

Which part of



you don't understand?

So why are you posting outdated data?

And I would find it hard to believe Kobe has had 12 game winners since March of last season.

[mogrovejo]

So why are you posting outdated data?

You have updated data league-wide? Feel free to post it.

It's a sample, equal for most players.

[Killakobe81]

Mojogrove(?) it's cool to be stat geek and that is fine but look at my above post i didnt need to see the numbers to know Pierce and Ray allen are clutch ...just watch basketball ...
But VC and Lebron? not in that category dont care what the numbers say I have seen both choke more than be clutch ... great players physically though ...
mojo had to use a website to tell you what i jst said off the top of my head ... LOL
This is not a slam I just watch A LOT of basketball Im a coach i trust my eyes and gut more tham stats My gut tells me if i needed one shot to win a game (no pass) I take:
1. Kobe
2. Pierce
3. Melo
4. Allen/Wade
5. Dirk

[mogrovejo]

And I would find it hard to believe Kobe has had 12 game winners since March of last season.

Huh? Me too, especially considering his efficiency. What's your point?

[mogrovejo]

Mojogrove it's cool to be stat geek and that is fine but look at my above post i didnt need to see the numbers to know Pierce and Ray allen are clutch ...just watch basketball ...
But VC and Lebron? not in that category dont care what the numbers say I have seen both choke more than be clutch ... great players physically though ...
o mojo had to use a website to tell you what i jst said off the top of my head ... LOL

In those 6 seasons, Kobe missed 42 game winning shots. That fits what I see: a guy who takes an insane amount of shots in the clutch while being inefficient.

[Killakobe81]

I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
MJ
No one not even the GOAT makes 'em alll

[mogrovejo]

I remember reading something last year where he passed Jordans 26.

Jordan used to defer the last shot quite a bit to guys like Paxson and Kerr, something Kobe will very rarely do. While he was a selfish prick in his first years in the league, Jordan became a very intelligent player.

[cobbler]

Huh? Me too, especially considering his efficiency. What's your point?

My point is that I can post many articles claiming he passed Jordan in December with 26 or 27.

Since your numbers don't even include the 3peat Laker years I can see the discrepancy between 28 and 15. And Kobe has 3 or 4 this year already so he's right there at the top anyway.

[Killakobe81]

In those 6 seasons, Kobe missed 42 game winning shots. That fits what I see: a guy who takes an insane amount of shots in the clutch while being inefficient.

And that's cool but would you say he's been most clutch this year or do you need your website to update first? LOL
Not everyone has to love like or respect Kobe but if you dont respect him he may beat you ...

[cobbler]

Jordan used to defer the last shot quite a bit to guys like Paxson and Kerr, something Kobe will very rarely do. While he was a selfish prick in his first years in the league, Jordan became a very intelligent player.

Horry and Fisher might disagree with you on that!

[mogrovejo]

My point is that I can post many articles claiming he passed Jordan in December with 26 or 27. Ill find em for ya.

So? How would that imply that Kobe has had 12 game winners since March of last season? You're not making much sense.

[Killakobe81]

And i dont even mind the data I think you have to balance stats vs what you see ...you could tell me Reggie miller was mostly inefficient in the clutch but I can only tell you what I saw ... Im just not a numbers guy cuz they lie ...stats said David was better than hakeem (remeber the NBA award they used to had out for efficency or some crap that David won 3 years in a row or so Spur fans help me out) But as player and a coach I KNOW that Hakeem was better ...