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nice reading really
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba,211932Kobe and Duncan are still better than you
By Kelly Dwyer
For the past few weeks, various outlets have been putting together player of the decade tallies, with Tim Duncan(notes) and Kobe Bryant(notes) bouncing in and out of the top two spots. These lists are so ridiculously pointless, that we did one too, last summer.
And while either decision left scads of people apoplectic ("I don't understand how you can overlook defense, which is half the game!" "Kobe should be on top because ... because he's Kobe!"), that's not really what counts, is it?
What counts is that, as we enter 2010, these two are still dominating on a level that should leave us bowing before our TVs every night. It's 2010, LeBron might be up to his tricks and Dwight Howard's(notes) bound to figure it out sooner or later, but this is still Kobe and TD's league. Somehow.
And that's just a ridiculous notion, this late in the game.
Kobe Bryant was drafted in 1996. He was playing preseason games around the same time Bill Clinton was debating Bob Dole. And I don't care that he came out of high school - this guy's been playing past the first round in every year of his career save for three campaigns, and he was in the first round (and playing ungodly minutes having to carry a terrible team) in two of those years.
And here he is, 42,690 minutes (including playoffs) later, still this good. Still this great. Still this potent.
His PER is around 26 right now, the fourth-best mark of his career if it holds up. That's with a broken finger. That's with a significant player in his starting lineup not fully understanding the offense, which takes away scoring opportunities for Kobe. Takes away assists. Takes time.
And yet, he's taken the time to drop 30 a game, including a spate of game-winners, while his team "figures it out" at the top of the standings. He's on pace to set a career high in shooting percentage with four working fingers on his shooting hand. Or, nine working fingers on his shooting hands, as Bryant has proven quite good on left-handed shots due to his tireless work ethic and unmatched drive.
Unmatched. He was handed this frame, and this pedigree, but so have lots of players of his (NBA-level) average height and build. Kobe did something with it.
The other night, against Dallas? Bryant could have had 50. Surveying the scene with a high dribble and all sorts of screens and defenders and possibilities in front of him, you could tell that this had a chance to be one of his nights. When the only shots that spin out are the ones that aren't supposed to spin out. When even the misses are makes.
He didn't drop 50. Didn't even drop his typical 30. He managed 15, eight assists. Four turnovers, too. The game was a rout, and Bryant was just toying with it, after a while, trying to disappear within the offense he loves so much, doing the thing he values above all. Winning, that is.
That's important to me, sure, but what do you know what should be surprising to us? At age 31, with all this wear and tear, this is a guy who still has the look of a 50-point scorer in his prime. 31's not exactly pension-time, I get that, but this is someone who entered the league having just turned 18, playing that deep into the playoffs so many times, with that level of intensity? Bodies and minds just aren't supposed to hold up this long.
Kobe's body hasn't, actually. His knees are shot. He can't make it through a season without turning one of his fingers into dust.
So what are we left with? That mind. The mind that tells you take it to the post. The one that now realizes that your chances to get the ball in scoring position are usually right in line with how willing you are to give it up before getting close to scoring position. The brain that loves the game as much as you.
I don't know what Tim Duncan loves, beyond his family and swords and such.
I do know that, at age 33, he's putting up a career high in numbers, per-minute.
His PER is around 28, and has been for most of the year. This was in a career with a 25 PER average, and 27 (a few times) as a high. After some step-slows to begin the year, he's been terrific defensively, as his mish-mashed Spurs unit has been slowly getting better, game by game.
Through all the accolades, through a decade that saw him win as the go-to guy on a championship team three different times, while burdened with the heavy load of having to guard all comers (because they did come past Tony Parker(notes), with relative ease sometimes) while working high efficiency magic on the other end, Duncan's about to turn in a career year at age 33.
Career year, kids.
Sure, he may have scored more or rebounded more per game over the course of his career, but pound for pound, minute by minute? This man has never played better.
The guy rarely turns it over. His rebound percentages rival his 24-year old version. He's hitting his free throws, he's passing the ball, and he's scoring, scoring, scoring. Dwight Howard can slap the top of the backboard and leave his man to pile up those blocks, but Tim Duncan is the best big man working in this game today.
Honestly, it's not close.
And he's 33.
He's got miles, too. 40,460 minutes on the career, and he spent those 18-21 years working in the ACC. And then a full rookie season forced to play second fiddle to David Robinson, even though everyone (right down to Robinson, Duncan, and the coaching staff) knew that this should be Duncan's team. Straightaway.
People talk about Gregg Popovich tanking the 1996-97 season, but nobody remembers how he essentially tanked all of 1997-98, as well. Sure, the Spurs won 56 games, but in this era's finest example of teaching a man to fish instead of handing him the trout, Popovich essentially punted Duncan's rookie year to teach him to learn how to play off the ball, to defend all angles, to work within a system, and to see the game through the eyes of someone besides the studly, all-world type.
Why? Because Coach Pop knew that Duncan was a studly, all-world-type. From the get-go. But he also knew, as it was with David Robinson for years, that Duncan would be paired with lesser lights, for whatever reason. That he'd see triple teams, and have to learn how to work away from the ball in order to contribute. And that defense was going to have to be his calling, even while being asked to drop 23 a night.
Popovich essentially wasted an entire season to teach a lesson, but look at this payoff! And how secure a man must Duncan be, at age 21, to go through that understudy program without a peep?
And here we are, 12 years later, watching Popovich and Duncan enjoy the fruits of that season in NBA purgatory. TD adapts to whatever rotation rolls in, whatever four surrounds him. He comes off the bench. He goes a quarter without shooting. He covers for his teammates. He gives up the ball early to get it back late. He's still destroying opponents defensively, and he still doesn't get credit for it while flashier guards that pile up the points sing to the website comment kids.
And it's 2010! These two weren't supposed to have faded away by now, but they sure as shouldn't be this brilliant — this MVP-level — at this point in their careers. How is it that everyone else hits their peak at age 28, and these guys are allowed to keep getting better?
Oh, yeah. It's because they actually care. It's because they know the game, way better than us. Not because of some insight handed down from on high (though Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich are pretty far up there), but because they wanted to learn. They wanted to get better.
It's because they're not done, yet. Lucky us.
nice reading really
Duncan STILL better than Howard, Dirk KG
Bryant STILL better than Lebron, Wade, Melo ...it MAY not be for much longer but I know who i would rather have THIS season ...
Well I hope they are better than me, considering their $$$$
This year is the best I've seen Duncan in like 2 years. Best ever year for Kobe.
Lebron, Wade, Melo have dropped behind both of them.
But but but he's going to average 24PPG for 75 games over 9 years and beat Kareem's record!
Allanon what sig bet did you lose? I miss your old Lamar and charmin ones ...LOL
When he is not at his best, the other guys around him are playing well
This season so far, it's the opposite
We can't have everyome clicking at the same time
Who said that? I think Kobe has 2 MAYBE 3 elite years and 2-3 all-star years anything after that will either be injury riddlied or diminishing returns ...If he does more he's an alien ...
But who cares about Kareem's record anyway he played til 40 ... at his best he was best center i ever seen but it was tuff watching his best moments only pop up every 2 ro 3 games I don't want to see Kobe that way or Mj with wiz ...
Hahah, the bet's over but I'm giving a couple makeup days extra since I wasn't around for the Holidays.
I'm making up some new Klomar ones
Yeah it does suck, Lefty. I feel like it's kind of been a waste of 2 years in Duncan's prime.When he is not at his best, the other guys around him are playing well
This season so far, it's the opposite
We can't have everyome clicking at the same time
As far as wasting primes criticize him if you want but that is why Kobe went off in that parking lot he did not want any part of that ...kudos for SA (and Duncan)for doing it without any public complaint from Timmy ...
TD and Kobe was my dream tandem.
Great read.
They would have had all the LOB's in the entire decade safely locked up in the trophy case, no doubt.
Yours too? LOL!
I have said it a 100x's ...TD's rookie year in theplayoffs i told all my LA co-workers ...I would trade Shaq for duncan staright up. People told me i was CRAZY ...Maybe I am ...but even BEFORE Kobe was Kobe I thought eddie jones, horry,van exel would of been great with timmy's game ...
I just appreciate work ethic, pride, fundamentals, a post-game, a bankshot and GREAT defense MORE than freakish size/speed ratios.
Many here props Shaq more than tim (even some genius Spur fans)
With Kobe turning out great IMAGINE in the clutch ...
PG Fisher
SG Kobe
SF eddie jones
PF Horry
C Duncan
All 5 great "clutch" players eXCEPT eddie jones ...Timmy would have 1 on1 matchups every night ....and we would need a back up big and defensive minded backup PG (lindsey hunter) and wing
Last edited by Killakobe81; 01-05-2010 at 05:43 PM.
Hi Allanon, hope your holiday was great.
Yo DPG. Happy New Year man.
And here I thought I was LeBron James.
Everyone's better than me, no ing .
duncan loves his swords
Good read. And I'm actually surprised to see so many Laker fans giving Duncan that level of respect. I thought that was only possible from an extreme minority of Laker fans. Quite refreshing, to say the least.
And I agree with killakobe81. Kobe and Duncan as teammates would have been epic win year after year.
Think about how perfectly they mesh. Elite wing/team defender + elite post/pnr/help defender.
Duncan, elite level high post/elite level low post player. Kobe, elite level perimeter, elite level high post player.
Personalities even compliment each other. Fire and ice. Yet both ferocious compe ors and most importantly 100% professionals.
TD would have complimented Kobe MUCH more then that other big guy...both off the court and on it.
The VAST majority of Lakers fans these days started watching with the 3 peat teams. A lot feel that to prop up Tim was a slight to Shaq (kind of the way Kobe first fans feel). For the fans that grew up prior to this decade's teams, it's a different perspective. Shaq wasn't even the best big in our franchise.
Last edited by jonnybravo; 01-05-2010 at 07:15 PM.
kobe and duncan together? thats just not fair lol
not only that, but you put those two players and their work ethics on the same squad, no other player on that team would be able to get away with laziness or poor effort. Ever.
All I know is every baskeball video game I play, I start a franchise by trading whoever I have to in order to pull Kobe out of LA.
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