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*Facepalm*,Kobe is my favorite player but this is pretty stupid,not going to lie...
So in my quest to validate both Timmy and Mr 81’s accomplishments included is a list of players at multiple positions that Duncan and Kobe currently or previously have/had the task of guarding:
Duncans most quality and consistent opponent total is roughly 14 and they are:
Kevin Garnett , Dirk Nowitski, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh, Jermaine Oneal, Pau Gasol, RaSheed Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Carlos Boozer, Chris Webber, Shaq, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudamire, Yao Ming,
While he's faced some good offensive compe ion Duncan has relatively been on easy street compared to Kobe. Of all the players listed above with the exception of Garnett not one is known for playing defense...Duncan hasn't had to work for . He has the luxury of relaxing on the defensive end and he never gets assigned the other teams best player (all the time) which is usually a high energy 1 or 2 guard. Like I maintain he'd be nobody in the Hakeem Olajuwon era...we wouldn't even know of this cat...
On the other hand Kobe’s most quality opponents total: 40...For the most part Kobe has the offensive and defensive assignment on these high energy cats... as you scroll through the list notice the defensive minded players that had the Kobe Assignment.
Michael Jordan , Reggie Miller, Paul Pierece , Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony , Lebron James , T-MAC , D Wade, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Shawn Amarion , Michael Redd, , Manu Ginobilli, Jason Richardson, Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Jerry Stackhouse, Andre Igoudala, Stephen Jackson, Eddie Jones, Brandon Roy, Michael Finley, JR Smith…, Latrell Sprewell, Ron Artest, , Tayshawn Prince, Dre Kirilenko, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Caron Butler, Al Harrington, Corey Maggette, Bruce Bowen, Josh Smith, Jeff Hornacek
Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best.
Last edited by F_U_Buddy; 01-05-2010 at 07:10 PM. Reason: title
*Facepalm*,Kobe is my favorite player but this is pretty stupid,not going to lie...
Shawn Amarion is a beast.
only if you have surface basketball knowledge is this stupid....I've played and studied the game in high school, college, and local tourny level...and I'm closer to the truth than your comment on insensibility to moral truth...you may not like my style but I doubt you can legitimately come with something to refute it.
I think the post is irrelevant, there are alot of things not mentioned in the stats when talking about defense. Some guys can stick to you like glue but not get 1 rebound or block or steal but still be able to slow you down, those IMO are the true defenders and Im sure of those players listed above for Duncan them had that ability even though they didn't have the stats to make it to All Defensive NBA team etc.
From 2000-2009 only the 2009 Lakers were able to win a le without an Allstar Bigman/Center (Even though Bynum and Gasol should be counted) So I think a Center/Big is a major piece for a team to contend.Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best.
For Kobe, You added older players who played against Kobe in their declining years but didn't include many older big men that played against Duncan, average players like Maggette and Harrington and Eddie Jones, defensive players that aren't that great offensively like Bowen and Raja and Prince and Kirilenko.
With all that energy you spent with that post pseudo-creating a lopsided picture, why did you neglect big men like--oh off the top of my head--Hakeem Olajuwon, Karl Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, Marcus Camby, Antonio Davis, Robert Horry, Kurt Thomas, Al Horford, David Lee, Antonio McDyess, Al Jefferson, Nene, LaMarcus Aldridge, David Lee, Emeka Okafor, Chris Kaman, Andrew Bogut, Lamar Odom, Kenyon Martin, Mehmet Okur... to name a few.
And warmed the bench at all three phases
Makes it easier to study.
I added a few for Duncan but I'm more focused on quality opponents...your list is mainly rubbish...and please if you wished any credibility on Duncan you'd remove Hakeems name from that list...but the fact remains Duncan hasn't worked as hard as Kobe maybe didn't need to but I know he hasn't...he parks in the paint and waits for the ball...not hardly yeoman's work...
Says the poster who included Josh Howard and Bad Porn Maggette on his list of "quality opponents."
Those statement don't match at all...So in my quest to validate both Timmy and Mr 81’s accomplishments included is a list of players at multiple positions that Duncan and Kobe currently or previously have/had the task of guarding:
Duncans most quality and consistent opponent total is roughly 14 and they are:
Kevin Garnett , Dirk Nowitski, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh, Jermaine Oneal, Pau Gasol, RaSheed Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Carlos Boozer, Chris Webber, Shaq, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudamire, Yao Ming,
While he's faced some good offensive compe ion Duncan has relatively been on easy street compared to Kobe. Of all the players listed above with the exception of Garnett not one is known for playing defense...Duncan hasn't had to work for . He has the luxury of relaxing on the defensive end and he never gets assigned the other teams best player (all the time) which is usually a high energy 1 or 2 guard. Like I maintain he'd be nobody in the Hakeem Olajuwon era...we wouldn't even know of this cat...
On the other hand Kobe’s most quality opponents total: 40...For the most part Kobe has the offensive and defensive assignment on these high energy cats... as you scroll through the list notice the defensive minded players that had the Kobe Assignment.
Michael Jordan , Reggie Miller, Paul Pierece , Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony , Lebron James , T-MAC , D Wade, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Shawn Amarion , Michael Redd, , Manu Ginobilli, Jason Richardson, Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Jerry Stackhouse, Andre Igoudala, Stephen Jackson, Eddie Jones, Brandon Roy, Michael Finley, JR Smith…, Latrell Sprewell, Ron Artest, , Tayshawn Prince, Dre Kirilenko, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Caron Butler, Al Harrington, Corey Maggette, Bruce Bowen, Josh Smith, Jeff Hornacek
Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best.
Last edited by Smooth Criminal; 01-05-2010 at 08:33 PM.
FailSo in my quest to validate both Timmy and Mr 81’s accomplishments included is a list of players at multiple positions that Duncan and Kobe currently or previously have/had the task of guarding:
Duncans most quality and consistent opponent total is roughly 14 and they are:
Kevin Garnett , Dirk Nowitski, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh, Jermaine Oneal, Pau Gasol, RaSheed Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Carlos Boozer, Chris Webber, Shaq, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudamire, Yao Ming,
While he's faced some good offensive compe ion Duncan has relatively been on easy street compared to Kobe. Of all the players listed above with the exception of Garnett not one is known for playing defense...Duncan hasn't had to work for . He has the luxury of relaxing on the defensive end and he never gets assigned the other teams best player (all the time) which is usually a high energy 1 or 2 guard. Like I maintain he'd be nobody in the Hakeem Olajuwon era...we wouldn't even know of this cat...
On the other hand Kobe’s most quality opponents total: 40...For the most part Kobe has the offensive and defensive assignment on these high energy cats... as you scroll through the list notice the defensive minded players that had the Kobe Assignment.
Michael Jordan , Reggie Miller, Paul Pierece , Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony , Lebron James , T-MAC , D Wade, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Shawn Amarion , Michael Redd, , Manu Ginobilli, Jason Richardson, Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Jerry Stackhouse, Andre Igoudala, Stephen Jackson, Eddie Jones, Brandon Roy, Michael Finley, JR Smith…, Latrell Sprewell, Ron Artest, , Tayshawn Prince, Dre Kirilenko, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Caron Butler, Al Harrington, Corey Maggette, Bruce Bowen, Josh Smith, Jeff Hornacek
Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best.
Samaki Walker, Horace Grant.
you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself...thus far what I've noticed on this board is a bunch of blowhards pretending to know basketballl when it fact they really don't...I see people posting links....ganging up...taking comfort in one another....licking each others asses....responding with one liners and jokes...and incomplete sentences such as "fail"
.... but I haven't really seen any real basketball analysis outside of Lakaluva...and 21blessings....and a few others most posters here remind me of the lego critique man....Can't build one but sure can critique it...classic and I love it...
I guess I will just have to keep educating you numnuts until I see improvement or a whimper of thoughtful anaylsis....sometimes I think my work goes unappreciated....
Why would anyone provide a real good educated in depth basketball analysis on a bad thread with an argument that doesn't even make sense?you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself...thus far what I've noticed on this board is a bunch of blowhards pretending to know basketballl when it fact they really don't
So much effort on so much fail...This 15 year old actually thinks we read this?
I'm not about to start arguing as to whom the better all-around player is, but it looks like you failed to account for the fact that many of those swing men you mentioned declined to go into the paint MANY-a-time simply due to the fact that Timmy was stationed there. Or after driving had their shot changed and/or blocked by the big guy inside.
Don't even start engaging with this . He's here to rile people up and get a reaction, not discuss basketball.
You have yet to display a single ounce of basketball knowledge. People with below basic level intelligence can't be educators. You're "Work" does go unappreciated, and it's because nobody likes you.you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself...thus far what I've noticed on this board is a bunch of blowhards pretending to know basketballl when it fact they really don't
dude your a bulls fan...what analysis do you have outside of being angry at Kobe for chasing down MJ...your bias clouds your judgment on many levels...you're down with the posters here because they defend MJ against Kobe I can see straight through you....these guys are a comfort group to you...this is therapy for you as a bulls fan...I get it...but pretty soon your boy will be run down and you and other bulls fans won't be able to take comfort and hide in the spurs house......lmao.....
[sigh] I'm finding it more and more difficult to separate the trolls from the idiotic, overzealous fan. Thanks for the heads up.
Edit: I should've known something was amiss by the ridiculous sig.
Hot Potato! Really nobody likes me....really (scratching my head)...seriously...get the outta here I don't believe you. say it ain't so...maybe one day you'll grow a fat and not care what others think of you...word of advice my Laker friend....when you're licking ass stop trying to be all classy and meticulous with it...your spur and mav friends don't care how you lick it as long as you lick it....it's ass your licking for crying out loud...till then enjoy that ass tasting...in fact take this wine and cheese it may taste better as you're doing the deed....
He is going to start this bull repeatedly until someone pinks him, no?
I notice you keep saying this...for the record it takes me no time (no effort) to spit knowledge some of us were born on the genetic upside you know.....
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