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I don't agree. I think he was becoming easier to guard towards the end of Avery and Harris' tenure here, and I think Carlisle would only gotten marginally better results than Avery with the same roster.
Saying Dirk leaves w/o the trade is pure speculation, he's too loyal to leave in my opinion. Hes said before that he cant see himself anywhere else other than Dallas. Also sure Kidd deserves some type of credit for Dirk's good play but come on lets not go overboard, Dirk isnt Marion and doesnt need Kidd to run the break for him or create open looks for him. Give the ball to Dirk and the man will go to work he doesnt need a facilitator.
Harris was a promising player, hailed as the next Parker by more than a few people. Sure he was the 3rd or 4th option much like a young Parker was for the Spurs but with developement he couldve been more. Currently with the way everyone aside from Dirk is playing on the Mavs, Harris would be the 2nd option. As far as the trade not being a home run goes, initially I thought the gamble was a reasonable one that might work out. But with hindsight, and seeing that it didnt put the Mavs over the top how can you consider it a good trade? Lateral at best, it kept the Mavs as simply a playoff team like theyve always been.
Simply speculation combined with alot of homerism. Harris would definitely help Dirk carry the load offensively though, he'd be a legit second option for Dallas right now and again look at his FG% in Dallas when he had good players to play off of he would help them out no doubt.
I don't agree. I think he was becoming easier to guard towards the end of Avery and Harris' tenure here, and I think Carlisle would only gotten marginally better results than Avery with the same roster.
As injury prone as Harris is/was, he gave the Mavs the potential to rise to another level. There's a reason JJ Barea gets the kind of minutes he's getting.
Paul, Parker, Williams and Rondo are gonna get theirs against anyone...but Harris gave you the ability to at least match up with those guys. Kidd finds himself on the bench against them and you're left with Barea playing man-D.
All those quotes were after the Kidd trade. There was a chance he could've left and management showed him that they were willing to go out and get him somebody that he wanted to play with.
Harris is what he is. He scores more points because he is a #1 option in New Jersey. The only thing he does better is get to the FT line, and he doesn't play D in NJ like he did in Dallas.Harris was a promising player, hailed as the next Parker by more than a few people. Sure he was the 3rd or 4th option much like a young Parker was for the Spurs but with developement he couldve been more.
And since that time they've added Marion for Jerry Stackhouse's contract and they have Dampier's contract to use this summer. The Mavs are not through upgrading their roster. Getting Kidd was to keep this team from getting worse. It was the beginning, not the end, of a roster transformation.As far as the trade not being a home run goes, initially I thought the gamble was a reasonable one that might work out. But with hindsight, and seeing that it didnt put the Mavs over the top how can you consider it a good trade? Lateral at best, it kept the Mavs as simply a playoff team like theyve always been.
You can't gloss over that, the Mavs did not want to continue to cross their fingers that Harris could stay healthy when they needed him in the spring. That's one of the reasons that he was so expendable.
With Marion and Howard, along with Kidd's size, the Mavs can get away with crossmatches. Aside from Dirk "not being a leader" or whatever, their biggest achilles heel in the playoffs was lack of perimeter defense, and that includes Devin Harris being unable to stop Steve Nash, Dwyane Wade and Baron Davis in successive years. He can't guard Chris Paul or Deron Williams either.Paul, Parker, Williams and Rondo are gonna get theirs against anyone...but Harris gave you the ability to at least match up with those guys. Kidd finds himself on the bench against them and you're left with Barea playing man-D
It would be one thing if acquiring Kidd was the only move that they planned to make, but they got Marion for basically nothing and they still have Damp's contract. I can definitely say with confidence that Marion and Howard together on the court have really shored up our perimeter wing defense.
Last edited by Findog; 01-06-2010 at 02:02 PM.
Roddy Boobeeboo or whatever his name is could be as good as Devin Harris in a few years.
You make it seem like Dirk disliked playing with Harris or something. Like I said I dont think Dirk wouldve gone anywhere, he just seems too loyal. This just seems like a weak reason to try justify a trade that didnt work out as intended.
Harris was like 23 when he was traded, to say his increased production is a simply a case of more minutes/touches is re ed. Sure that a part of it but he's also improved...again currently he would be a legit #2 option for Dallas. You trying to say your boys in blue wouldnt benefit from that right now?
Well until that roster transformation is complete and brings your boys in blue a le it is not a sucessful trade. As of today Nets win out on this trade. Mavs better hurry up with the completion of this roster transformation though since Kidd is on his last legs.
Dirk wanted a change and made his feelings known. You ignore your franchise player at your own peril.
I've seen what he can do as a #1 option in NJ and I'm not that impressed. He'd still be competing with Howard and Terry for touches in Dallas.Harris was like 23 when he was traded, to say his increased production is a simply a case of more minutes/touches is re ed. Sure that a part of it but he's also improved...again currently he would be a legit #2 option for Dallas. You trying to say your boys in blue wouldnt benefit from that right now?
It's a successful trade because they got better and kept their window open. Both teams accomplished their goals in this trade, so as of today it's win-win.Well than this roster transformation might not mean much once its complete considering the fact that Kidd is already on his last legs. So until that roster transformation is complete and brings your boys in blue a le it is not a sucessful trade. As of today Nets win out on this trade
Based on what some flashes of athleticism and defense? I saw similar flashes from that french got Mahinmi and look how he turned out. Yall act like Boubois is a star in the making or some despite the fact that he cant crack the rotation, than have the nerve to talk about Spurs fans being excited over Blair.
Making those deals and having Harris aren't mutually exclusive. You could have Marion, Howard and Harris in the 4th quarter. As opposed to Marion, Howard and Barea.
Dirk has great production right now, but over the course of the season i'm afraid it's going to start to wear on him. He's being asked to do everything on the offensive end. Kidd is great on the fast break, but when playoff time rolls around and the game slows down Dirk is going to need help with the scoring load.
I understand what you're saying about Harris...it all makes sense. But with all the negatives that Mav fan associates with Harris, Kidd has just as many. I just don't see how you can spin this as a win.
I can tell you this much about Beaubois...as an opposing fan I didn't like seeing him with the ball in his hands. He also has the defensive ability that neither Barea nor Kidd possess.
Many players show flashes of brilliance. Im not saying this kid wont be any good, all Im saying is wait until he shows this during prolonged stretches while getting minutes regularly before proclaiming him the next great thing.
you did?
it is not that roddy is "next great thing" for sure, but he has the skills and tools to be at least as good as Devin Harris.
with Kidd as mentor he is likely to be even better, imho.
How keeping Harris is opposed to keep the Mavs championship window's open?
Being excited about Blair is one thing, calling Blair a ROY candidate based off his per 36 minute stats is another, that's what I talk about, when Spurfan tries to tell me I'm dumb for calling Ty Evans better than Blair.. I'd think Dallas fans were stupid if they said Boobeeboo is better than Evans.
Speculation that he leaves.
He averaged 21 and 7 last year with respectable percentages. He's more than capable of being a solid #2. Terry and Howard have declined, Harris is a better second option than either of them.
How does remaining the same playoff team and nothing else make the Mavs better? Im sure the Mavs brought in Kidd to try to win a le and not to continue being what theyve always been. If they wouldve been satisfied with what they were they wouldve been better off letting Harris develope. Trade has been unsuccessful so far and that likely wont change.
And a good chance of that happening if that don't make the roster upgrades that they have.
And he sucks this year and has been injury-prone for his entire career.He averaged 21 and 7 last year with respectable percentages. He's more than capable of being a solid #2. Terry and Howard have declined, Harris is a better second option than either of them.
Because they had come to the conclusion that they were going to continue to decline without making a change. And they are better - it's not the same league that it was in 2006. Denver, Orlando, Cleveland, Boston and the Lakers are powers now. It's re ed to say that they are better off because they made the Finals in 06 with Harris but lost to Denver last year with Kidd. In case you haven't noticed, Denver is one of the best teams in the league now and Carmelo has really started to fulfill his potential as a franchise player.How does remaining the same playoff team and nothing else make the Mavs better?
Dallas is on pace to win 56 games this year. I don't think that's the case if you swap Harris for Kidd straight up. For one thing, Kidd has missed only one game, Harris has missed 10 so far.
They have 3 more years to make it a success, based on the criteria of winning a le.Im sure the Mavs brought in Kidd to try to win a le and not to continue being what theyve always been. If they wouldve been satisfied with what they were they wouldve been better off letting Harris develope. Trade has been unsuccessful so far and that likely wont change.
Yeah
The motha er was a beast in the NBDL and showed signs of being a good shotblocker in his few games with the Spurs. He ended up being a pussy though.
Pretty sure the majority of Spurs fans dont actually think Blair > Evans. Also he definitely shouldnt be in ROY consideration, the 36 minute stat holds some truth though.
In that case I don't talk about it. Blair was def. a bargain where they got him.
They havent been upgrades. He wouldve stayed regardless.
Your basing this on 20 games coming off of an injury. The only valid point you make is the injury thing, but with the way he plays attacking the basket all the time you have to expect and live with that. Similar to Manu with us...its not like theyre Grant Hill in Orlando or anything. 60-65 games+playoffs for these type of explosive players is fine.
I realize that the league has changed, but the Mavs havent. Theyre still just a playoff team with no real chance at a le...the trade was supposed to change that but it hasnt. Therefore as of today the trade is not sucessful.
Not sure Kidd has 3 years left in him. Not at a respectable level anyways.
Blair couldn't play 36 minutes a night. Not now, at least.
Yeah, Kidd > Harris and Marion > Stackhouse, and Tim Thomas > Nothing. Those aren't upgrades.
Right. Avery is still the coach and we're talking about some made-up trade for Harris that never happened.I realize that the league has changed, but the Mavs havent. Theyre still just a playoff team with no real chance at a le..
They're a darkhorse contender for the le, same as the Spurs. And unlike the Spurs, who blew their wad on Richard Jefferson, the Mavs have the expirings of Howard and Dampier to improve their roster.
The Spews are no longer contenders and they will be irrelevant for a very long time.
The only reason they were contenders is because 2 legends fell in their lap. I mean San Antonio is the most irrelevant metroplex in the country and is just a glorified town. Nobody wants to play there, and they are a small market. As soon as Duncan retires, it's off to reruns of Don Quixote for you s
Those are arguable, but regardless it matter very little when these 'upgrades' havent amounted to les or anything close to that.Yeah, Kidd > Harris and Marion > Stackhouse, and Tim Thomas > Nothing. Those aren't upgrades.
Their position in the Western Conference hasnt changed, theyre still the same old Mavs that make the playoffs but dont amount to anything. And we're talking about the Mavs and the bad trade they made not the Spurs.
We still have Ginobili, Bonner, Finley, Mason, and Mahinmi's expirings though
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