Article: Rosen: Top Ten Players in the NBA

[JoeTait75]

Just because someone played the game- in Rosen's case before they cut the bottom out of the peach baskets- doesn't afford them automatic credibility. Mark May won the Outland Trophy at Pitt and was a Pro Bowler in the NFL. Doesn't mean he knows what the he's talking about when it comes to college football.

[iggypop123]

my list :

1. Kobe Bryant


2. Lebron James
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Tim Duncan
5. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Dwayne Wade
7. Chris Paul
8. Pau Gasol
9. Brandon Roy
10. Dwight Howard

[mogrovejo]

Just a bad list.

[jag]

Other than scoring, you haven't stated how Gasol isn't even close to Duncan and Dirk. Gasol is rebounding as well as Duncan and much better than Dirk. He's getting the same amount of assists as Duncan despite not being the focus of the offense and playing in a system that gives equal opportunity for playmaking. He's played well defensively. And when he does get his touches, he's hitting at a 55% clip. Now, if you want to believe he's not even close to them, fine. But, other than scoring, what are your reasons for it? I know you don't believe that scoring is the deciding factor. Otherwise, heck, Duncan isn't playing any where close to the level of Chris Bosh.

As far as Duncan is concerned, he's been the focal point of everything for the Spurs. On both ends of the floor everything hinges on Duncan. He's absolutely carried the Spurs to where they are right now. Gasol doesn't have to worry about carrying his team...he's in a complimentary role which allows him to get easier looks on the offensive end and good support on the defensive end. Gasol will never have to worry about carrying that team. I just don't think you can compare them right now with what Duncan has been required to do for the Spurs.

[Kevin Durant 35]

Uhmm... KD plays no defense? Really? The whole list is ed up what else can i say

[ffadicted]

Other than scoring, you haven't stated how Gasol isn't even close to Duncan and Dirk. Gasol is rebounding as well as Duncan and much better than Dirk. He's getting the same amount of assists as Duncan despite not being the focus of the offense and playing in a system that gives equal opportunity for playmaking. He's played well defensively. And when he does get his touches, he's hitting at a 55% clip. Now, if you want to believe he's not even close to them, fine. But, other than scoring, what are your reasons for it? I know you don't believe that scoring is the deciding factor. Otherwise, heck, Duncan isn't playing any where close to the level of Chris Bosh.

Good points. Duncan is scoring and blocking more, but Pau is right up there, and is rebounding better. But it's sometimes about the intangibles. Ask anybody out there if the lakers, for this season only, would want to do a Pau for Duncan swap straight up. I guarantee you that you won't find a GM, Coach, Player or fan that doesn't do it, honestly.

(Edit: that's if you're not considering fitting into the triangle offense right away, but that's a different topic altogether, even though I think Duncan can pick it up quickly)

[JoeTait75]

Uhmm... KD plays no defense? Really? The whole list is ed up what else can i say

In the wonderful world of Charlie Rosen, everyone not named Scottie Pippen or Kobe Bryant plays lousy defense.

[JamStone]

As far as Duncan is concerned, he's been the focal point of everything for the Spurs. On both ends of the floor everything hinges on Duncan. He's absolutely carried the Spurs to where they are right now. Gasol doesn't have to worry about carrying his team...he's in a complimentary role which allows him to get easier looks on the offensive end and good support on the defensive end. Gasol will never have to worry about carrying that team. I just don't think you can compare them right now with what Duncan has been required to do for the Spurs.

I still don't agree that that means Gasol isn't "even close" to playing near his level. When Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili were playing at their best and took a lot of pressure off of Duncan, did it mean Duncan wasn't as good as when he has more responsibility? No. It simply means things were easier. Paul Pierce was widely considered somewhere along the lines of a top 25-30 player in the league before KG and Ray Allen joined Boston. But after, all of a sudden he's a top 10 player or at least borderline the last couple seasons. Having more help on your team doesn't mean you're not as good as a player who doesn't have as much help.

Some Kobe and Laker haters like to discredit them any way they can, and same with Pau Gasol now too. There has been plenty of people extolling the virtues of how much talent the Lakers have. But after Kobe and Gasol, it's not as impressive as people like to make it out to be. Fisher sucks now. Ron Artest has disappointed offensively. Odom has been a good rebounder but not great at anything else. And Andrew Bynum and everyone are coming to find out he's more of a "solid" center than a future perennial all star, as he's been basically average since Gasol returned. And we can stop talking about their depth as we have come to find out that outside of Odom and an occasional big game from either Farmar or Shannon Brown, their bench isn't that great.

Gasol is definitely a second fiddle. But I've seen plenty of Spurs fans rank Tony Parker in the top 5 if not top 3 PGs in the league and at the same level as CP3 and Deron Williams and Nash if not better than those guys, even though the Spurs still start and end with Duncan as the focal point of the team and Tony is still a complement to Tim. Same with Ginobili, I've seen many if not the majority of Spurs fans say they'd take Manu over any 2-guard in the league after Kobe and Wade, and some taking Manu over even Wade. But, now, put Pau in the same equation Pau isn't "even close" to Dirk or Duncan.

Gasol doesn't have as much pressure as Dirk or Duncan. He doesn't carry the team and doesn't need to. But, I think he's playing at that level regardless.

[TD 21]

Rosen is completely biased to all things Lakers, because of his never-ending obsession with his long-time buddy Jackson and his recent obsession with Bryant and Gasol.

I'll to a tier system of the top 20 players in the NBA (within' these tiers, the players are listed in no particular order):

Tier 1: James, Duncan, Bryant, Wade, Paul

Tier 2: Howard, Anthony, Pierce, Nowitzki, Nash

Tier 3: Gasol, Roy, Williams, Bosh, Durant

Tier 4: Garnett, Parker, Stoudemire, Johnson, Yao

[Chieflion]

Rosen is completely biased to all things Lakers, because of his never-ending obsession with his long-time buddy Jackson and his recent obsession with Bryant and Gasol.

I'll to a tier system of the top 20 players in the NBA (within' these tiers, the players are listed in no particular order):

Tier 1: James, Duncan, Bryant, Wade, Paul

Tier 2: Howard, Anthony, Pierce, Nowitzki, Nash

Tier 3: Gasol, Roy, Williams, Bosh, Durant

Tier 4: Garnett, Parker, Stoudemire, Johnson, Yao

Move Dirk higher, Pierce down straight to tier 4 and move Roy and Durant up to tier 2. Move Nash to tier 3. That would be my list.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

In the wonderful world of Charlie Rosen, everyone not named Scottie Pippen or Kobe Bryant plays lousy defense.

[jag]

I still don't agree that that means Gasol isn't "even close" to playing near his level. When Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili were playing at their best and took a lot of pressure off of Duncan, did it mean Duncan wasn't as good as when he has more responsibility? No. It simply means things were easier. Paul Pierce was widely considered somewhere along the lines of a top 25-30 player in the league before KG and Ray Allen joined Boston. But after, all of a sudden he's a top 10 player or at least borderline the last couple seasons. Having more help on your team doesn't mean you're not as good as a player who doesn't have as much help.

Some Kobe and Laker haters like to discredit them any way they can, and same with Pau Gasol now too. There has been plenty of people extolling the virtues of how much talent the Lakers have. But after Kobe and Gasol, it's not as impressive as people like to make it out to be. Fisher sucks now. Ron Artest has disappointed offensively. Odom has been a good rebounder but not great at anything else. And Andrew Bynum and everyone are coming to find out he's more of a "solid" center than a future perennial all star, as he's been basically average since Gasol returned. And we can stop talking about their depth as we have come to find out that outside of Odom and an occasional big game from either Farmar or Shannon Brown, their bench isn't that great.

Gasol is definitely a second fiddle. But I've seen plenty of Spurs fans rank Tony Parker in the top 5 if not top 3 PGs in the league and at the same level as CP3 and Deron Williams and Nash if not better than those guys, even though the Spurs still start and end with Duncan as the focal point of the team and Tony is still a complement to Tim. Same with Ginobili, I've seen many if not the majority of Spurs fans say they'd take Manu over any 2-guard in the league after Kobe and Wade, and some taking Manu over even Wade. But, now, put Pau in the same equation Pau isn't "even close" to Dirk or Duncan.

Gasol doesn't have as much pressure as Dirk or Duncan. He doesn't carry the team and doesn't need to. But, I think he's playing at that level regardless.

You make good points, especially about the Kobe/Gasol hate. I’m not trying to play the Kobe/Gasol buildup/teardown game, and I certainly wasn’t commenting on Gasol’s capabilities. I think you misunderstood my original statement. I never said Gasol wasn’t as good …I said he wasn’t playing as well. And I still don’t think he is.

Duncan has had a lot of help the past few seasons, especially when Parker and Manu have been healthy. That didn’t mean that Duncan wasn’t as good or qualified…it just meant that he didn’t have to play at an optimum level on the offensive end of the floor. This year has been different, however. Duncan’s help has been inconsistent and sometimes nonexistent. His lack of help has required him to play at such a high level, and to carry the load on both ends of the floor.

You went through the Laker lineup (other than Kobe and Gasol) and pointed out how various players are either overrated or under qualified. Gasol has missed 12 games. If Duncan had missed 12 games then the Spurs would probably be close to a .500 team right now (if not worse). Gasol apparently isn’t having that type of an impact. Gasol’s impact, while important, just doesn’t measure up to Duncan’s. It just doesn’t seem comparable. It’s not because he isn’t capable, it’s just that there simply isn’t a role available on the Lakers where Gasol needs to play at the level Duncan has been required to play at. And he certainly hasn’t been under the pressure to perform that comes along with the role Duncan has accepted throughout the season.
In a similar way, Dirk’s importance to the Mavs is immeasurable. He’s had to be the Swiss Army knife of the Mavericks offense. If he slacks, they lose. You can say he’s one dimensional, but that’s not quite the case this year. He’s averaging over 8pts per game more than Gasol and is ranked ahead of Gasol in PER. And scoring is only overrated if your team is losing. Bosh is putting up his stats on a sub-.500 team…that’s certainly not the case with Dirk.

As far as Duncan’s stats vs. Gasol’s stats: Again, Duncan produces his stats as the anchor – on both ends of the floor. And he’s putting up those stats while playing less minutes. Duncan is also ranked #2 in the league in PER, right behind Lebron. Gasol is ranked 17th.

[JamStone]

I guess my major objection is in saying Pau "isn't even close" to the level of Dirk Duncan. I certainly am not arguing that Pau is "as good" or "better." I'm simply arguing against the notion that he's "not even close."

[21_Blessings]

Magic was a defensive liability towards the end of his career, including the late eighties when they won their last two les with him. But he always had a strong defensive frontline behind him.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about here. Stick to overrating everything Mavericks.

Even mentioning Magic's defense in the same breath as Nash is a ing insult to basketball.

Magic had the ability to defend every position on the basketball court. Can Nash make that claim? Sure Magic couldn't stay in front of Isiah in the late 80's but that goes for the rest of the league. Magic has a career defensive rating of 104 (Nash is at 116 this year) and averaged 2 steals. Calling Magic a liability is ing dumb I'd bet you barely even watched the man play.

[exstatic]

Rosen was an assistant to Phil Jackson with the Albany Patroons of the Continental Basketball Association

I guess that explains the non-stop fellatio...

[vicphoenix13]

People keep ripping Nash's defense without mentioning how poor the defense is around him. He has never played with a great defensive front line. By the way, how many good defensive point guards are there in the NBA? Its not like the 80's and 90's when guys like Isiah, Payton and Stockton could dominate on defense.

Another thing that's underrated about Nash is his shooting ability. Its amazing that a soon to be 36 year old point guard is shooting 54 percent from the field this season. In fact, this is sixth straight season shooting above 50 percent from the field.

[Findog]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about here.

Yes I do. I watched the Lakers back then, something you probably didn't start doing until they signed Shaq.

Even mentioning Magic's defense in the same breath as Nash is a ing insult to basketball.

Did I say Magic was as bad a defender as Nash? No, I said he was a defensive liability towards the end of his career, but it didn't hurt his teams as much as Nash's defense hurt his.

Magic had the ability to defend every position on the basketball court

In his prime, sure. But that's not what I was talking about now, was it? Can you learn to read before ignorantly spouting off?

Calling Magic a liability is ing dumb I'd bet you barely even watched the man play.

He was a liability towards the end of his career, but like Jamstone said, it didn't matter as much because of the nature of the league back then.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't base my lists on JUST this season, since there are many factors..I go by history + current play + cir stances..I'd go..

#1. Lebron..
#2. Rapist..
#3. Wade(talent-wise..he's obviously coasting this year)..
#4. Paul..
#5. Duncan..
#6. Howard..
#7. Nowitzki..
#8. Anthony..
#9. Durant..
#10. Bosh..
#11. Roy..
#12. Gasol..
#13. Williams..
#14. Nash..
#15. Johnson..
#16. Pierce..
#17. Garnett..

I can't decide after this..probably forgetting somebody..

[Chieflion]

I don't base my lists on JUST this season, since there are many factors..I go by history + current play + cir stances..I'd go..

#1. Lebron..
#2. Rapist..
#3. Wade(talent-wise..he's obviously coasting this year)..
#4. Paul..
#5. Duncan..
#6. Howard..
#7. Nowitzki..
#8. Anthony..
#9. Durant..
#10. Bosh..
#11. Roy..
#12. Gasol..
#13. Williams..
#14. Nash..
#15. Johnson..
#16. Pierce..
#17. Garnett..

I can't decide after this..probably forgetting somebody..

I think Josh Smith is playing better than Joe Johnson at this point, I am not sure though. I think Danny Granger is better than Pierce this season. Zach Randolph has been playing great.

[HarlemHeat37]

I give Johnson credit for being the #1 scorer/playmaker on their team and the guy that receives the most attention..I think he's been overrated TBH, but I think around that spot is accurate..

As for Pierce, I think he's overrated by most people and massively overrated by the media, but I don't think he really shows his true worth until the playoffs now, so I think he'll show it by then..

Agree on Randolph..I'd have to see if he can continue it all year without letting the old Randolph return..if he's shaken his team cancer ways, he's a top 20 guy in the NBA..

[HarlemHeat37]

I give Johnson credit for being the #1 scorer/playmaker on their team and the guy that receives the most attention..I think he's been overrated TBH, but I think around that spot is accurate..

As for Pierce, I think he's overrated by most people and massively overrated by the media, but I don't think he really shows his true worth until the playoffs now, so I think he'll show it by then..

Agree on Randolph..I'd have to see if he can continue it all year without letting the old Randolph return..if he's shaken his team cancer ways, he's a top 20 guy in the NBA..

[dirk4mvp]

Agree on Randolph..I'd have to see if he can continue it all year without letting the old Randolph return..if he's shaken his team cancer ways, he's a top 20 guy in the NBA..

He'll just get unfairly labeled as being a player putting up good stats on a bad team. Randolph is legit.

[MiamiHeat]

People keep ripping Nash's defense without mentioning how poor the defense is around him. He has never played with a great defensive front line. By the way, how many good defensive point guards are there in the NBA? Its not like the 80's and 90's when guys like Isiah, Payton and Stockton could dominate on defense.

Another thing that's underrated about Nash is his shooting ability. Its amazing that a soon to be 36 year old point guard is shooting 54 percent from the field this season. In fact, this is sixth straight season shooting above 50 percent from the field.

it's not the players fault.

The NBA wants to promote fake scoring superstar Guards.... so they removed hand checking and stuff to do it

today's NBA is weak sauce compared to 80s and 90s

[namlook]

Corrected list:

I don't base my lists on JUST this season, since there are many factors..I go by history + current play + cir stances..I'd go..

#1. Crybaby / Hypocrite / Bad In-Game Dancer ( http://youbeenblinded.com/video-lebr...fter-loss/3306 ) ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7vlWi1rucI )
#2. Rapist
#3. Cheater ( http://www.page2live.com/2009/02/09/...r-sex-parties/ )
#4. Flopper ( http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94692 )
#5. Duncan..
#6. Howard..
#7. Nowitzki..
#8. Anthony..
#9. Durant..
#10. Bosh..
#11. Roy..
#12. Gasol..
#13. Williams..
#14. Nash..
#15. Johnson..
#16. Bad Actor / Faker ( http://dimemag.com/2008/06/paul-pier...s-fake-injury/ )

#17. Garnett..

I can't decide after this..probably forgetting somebody..

[da_suns_fan]

Pau Gasol isn't in the top 10, much less top 20.

You got that backwards, champ.