What I see is a guy who just doesn't seem to have a drive to be the best on the floor. And when he is presented with clutch moments he seems to freeze, though, I will give him credit for that last shot against the thunder, but in the previous game against the thunder he also had a chance to win that game he came up with a huge steal then quickly froze, traveled and turned the ball back over. And in some games he starts off big but then the rest of the game he is a nonfactor. And on this road trip he seems to whine about all the bad things that happen to him. Earlier in the season he passed up a lot of good looks, he does settle for jumpers but then everyone seems to be doing that, not just now but the whole year. For whatever reasons, RJ has just also fallen into this pattern, of settling for jumpers and not attacking the rim. But like I said so has everybody else. His intensity is up and down, he'll make a great play but then he will fade out of the game. I'm just not sold on him or on McDyess, whom I had a lot of hope for seeing how he has done in the past coming around anytime soon to help this team out.
Still it's a long season and this team certainly has the potential to turn it around and do great things.
This and the nonsensical turnovers committed. This always stops our momentum.
As far as defense. The word is out to attack Spurs with the intent of a juggernaut. Sometimes Spurs can only temporarily hinder the perpetual bleeding. But in the end, we look like an average defensive team. It has a lot of to do with focus, experience and intensity.
rj hasnt missed games, and has psychosis, so im sticking with rj. especially cuz your ron ron wants to be an mma fighter in the summer good luck with that, didnt he have this unexplainable blow to the head??? yeah no thanks, we dont play crackheadsRon Artest at 5M or at 14M, hmmmmmmmmmmm
I'll agree with a lot of points: that RJ has sucked, that he needs to play in a more up tempo system because he either gets to the rim or surprisinlgy makes a good pass on the break (yes, we're scoring more points this year but we are a horrible fast break team), and that Pop tried to force him into the ill-suited Bowen sit in the corner role.
Pop is correct in that the team needs to play better defense but I still think the offense could improve in basic skills like passing and more generally having an overall iden y. It still seems to me like Pop looks at the offense as a mystery and expects scorers to do their voodoo to succeed and all he has to do is put the ball in their hand and magic will happen.
But the main reason the Spurs suck this year is because of Tony and Manu, with Dice and RJ being culprits as well. People are making excuses for Tony, Manu, and Dice because they're either old or injured. Well, if people are going to blame RJ the most then he shouldn't be the number 4 option. In other words, if people want to put the majority of the responsibility on him for us failing, then he needs to be the number one option on offense, because it seems to me you can't honestly expect one thing without the other.
Am I saying RJ should be the number one option? Not necessarily, but if things get worse, reimagining the offense for a more up temp system would at least play into his strengths. In the meantime, RJ needs to get his head into the game because the season is slipping away.
It's funny, the coaches seem to love veterans but they don't seem to realize that veterans are just as hard to change as young players, if not more so. Our new veterans are so set in their ways, it seems like they would just as soon give up then try to adapt. RJ and Dice are guilty of this.
early in the season, no doubt, but now, a) getting hot; and 2) while offense is spotty, has been making it up with hustle, playmaking, defensive stops/ steals.
While I dogged RJ a bit earlier in this thread because his incorporation into the Spurs has been underwhelming, to be clear, RJ is great All-Star calibre NBA player, with a respectable career, and plenty of game.
You're wrong if you think RJ is a "looser," or if you could imagine no way that RJ could have been a good acquisition for the Spurs this season. The disappointment comes from the high-expectations for this season, not because of actual poor performance by RJ, or the Spurs.
Yes, I said it, neither 1) RJ; nor 2) the Spurs, are performing poorly this season. Flame on!
yea idk but this whole season hes been a real
no Jefferson, no problem? heh, i know. earlier it was no bonner no problem and no duncan no problem. so tough to imagine how will we start (first five) in playoffs.
Jefferson has been a number one or two option for his entire basketball career. He is now the number three or four option. That is a big change in his role. I don't think he knows what he is here for, what his purpose is. In New Jersey and Milwaukee, he was a scorer. His role was easily defined. I honestly don't know what his role is here, and I don't think Pop does either. I do have confidence that he and Pop will figure it out though.
RJ was NEVER an All-Star calibre player. People keep saying this but it's simply not true. He's a fringe all-star at best.
Stop blaming RJ the guy is like a square and we are trying to fit him in a round circle. The Spurs organization screwed up mightly by getting him he does not fit our style of basketball and anyone who has watched him play could have told you.
And what stupid organization is going to pay a guy 15 million to come in and onlyl play defense? I can understand if that person is a shot blocking, rebounding big...but a SF? STUPIDDDDD.
So when it's June and RJ is out fishing, you'll still say you're not worried because it's only June and October is just around the corner. Yeah, right. He and Dice have shown nothing, nada, zip. Blair is a rookie and he is making RJ & Dice look like they should be playing for The Little Sisters of Mercy girls Junior High team. There is a reason those two have never won a ring. Just listen to their after game interviews when we lose. There is no life in either. I feel bad for Peter Holt and Timmy. Both deserve a whole of a lot better than these two bums.
You would think at some point that people would understand that vets typically take time to adjust to the Spurs system.
Rasho, Ferry, McDaniels, Kerr, Oberto, Barry, and Finley all took time and became solid contributors after disappointing first seasons.
Claxton didnt come on until late but for every Kevin Willis you have about 5 other guys that took a good deal of time to get used to the Spurs game.
I think people understand that, it's just that we're in panic mode since it was a huge move and it's the end of the Duncan era, so people want quick results..also, RJ was a better player than any of those guys at the time we acquired him, so there's also more pressure there too..
It would be interesting to see what each of those player's first year stats were (including Robert Horry) to see how RJ's performance is stacking up with their first year performances as a Spur.
I'd look into it now but have to run.
Manu isn't helping on the offensive end.....
Last three games:
3-9
3-10
4-11
That's a problem. And when you combine it with y J:
0-6
3-7
5-12
It's an even bigger problem.
Ok, now for more explanation and research, I am going to dig out the stats from the 2008-2009 season when Jeferson was with the Milwaukee Bucks, which is also the 1st year he was with the Bucks. This is fair because it is the closest season to breakdown the flaws and the ridiculous hype in the pre-season that got people all so disappointed up till now.
In the 2008-2009 season
Richard Jefferson: 19.6 points, 4.6 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.17 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS% of 55.4%. Played 35.8 minutes per game. He takes 14.9 shots per game and converts on 43.9% on them. He also attempted 3.6 three point shots and converted 1.4 of them per game. He attempts 6.3 FTs and converts 5.1 FTs a game. Richard Jefferson did this in an injury-plagued season for the Bucks with Michael Redd and Bogut sidelined with injuries and being the focus of the offense. He also had a PER of 15.4.
In the 2009-2010 season up till now
Richard Jefferson: 12.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.64 steals, 0.33 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, TS% 55.6%. Played 31.1 minutes per game. He takes 9.9 shots a game, and converts on 47.2% of them. He attempts 2.6 three point shots a game and converts 0.9 of it for a percentage of 36%. He now attempts 3.5 FTs per game and converts on 2.5 FTs, good for 70.6%. Richard Jefferson is doing this as the 3rd best scorer of the team. He has a PER of 13.3.
Stats do not tell the whole story but Jefferson has not been getting to the line as often as he should, hurting his TS%, as he should be getting to the line more frequently, is this part of the Spurs offense? Is it due to the lack of touches? Stats say RJ has a usage rate of 24.6% in 2008-2009 and a usage rate of 19.3% with the Spurs. He is scoring more efficently than he did last season on a lower volume of shots. His defense has been average, same as when he was in Milwaukee. RJ also played lesser minutes in San Antonio.
Figure this out yourself.
Individual Spurs Offensive and Defensive Rating of The Big Three + RJ
Richard Jefferson has an Offensive Rating of 109, Defensive Rating of 106.
Tim Duncan has an Offensive Rating of 119, Defensive Rating of 100.
Tony Parker has an Offensive Rating of 107, Defensive Rating of 108.
Manu Ginobili has an Offensive Rating of 115, Defensive Rating of 103.
Are the Offensive Ratings/Defensive Ratings of all these four players indicative of their overall play? It looks like RJ has a positive impact on the court while Parker is a burden on the court. I don't think anyone believes these stats now and are going to on me for this but is this probably true? Does RJ help the Spurs on offense where they need it, even with his "crappy production"? I say yes. We have our best offensive small forward in the Duncan era and people are ting on him because he is being paid big bucks. The Spurs did not sign him to that contract and if he does not have that contract, the Spurs would not have gotten him, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Last edited by Chieflion; 01-19-2010 at 09:52 AM.
Well, apparently there's your answer.Jefferson ailing: Jefferson had a string of 232 consecutive starts snapped when he sat out Monday's game with back spasms.
Jefferson's back had been bothering him for a few days — which explains his 0-for-6 game Saturday at Memphis — but he didn't bring it up to the training staff until the fourth quarter of that game.
“You just watched him running, he looked bad,” coach Gregg Popovich said. “Finally, he owned up. I wish guys wouldn't try to be heroes. He could have told us earlier.”
Jefferson last sat out a game March 6, 2006, at Dallas while playing for New Jersey. He played all 82 games in each of the past two seasons.
The spurs do not get out and run enough. 26'th in fast break points
Last edited by rascal; 01-19-2010 at 12:43 PM.
How do you get the "defensive rating", lol at Duncan having the worst of all those players.
The ratings are a calculation of points scored or allowed per 100 possessions that the player is on the court . So you want a high offensive number and a low defensive number. Duncan has the best numbers on both sides of the ball.
See here:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2010.html
The hate Jefferson, Bonner, and Finley get on here is ridiculous and unwarranted. Meanwhile, guys like Hairston, Manhimi, and Haislip get their ass kissed for no reason. There's a reason why Pop plays RJ, Bonner, and Finley as opposed to the other guys...
Well, the Finley hate I sometimes agree with... He is a professional and all, but I think we have better options on the bench now.
When did the league change to where the team had to change to suit the player....When had a player become bigger than the team, RJ is not the best player on the team, nor is he the 2nd best or the 3rd best.. So given that the team doesnt need to make the adjustment its the player, he is not a all-star caliber player so he need to find a way to change his game up a bit to mesh with the team.. If he cant score in a game here or there so be it, but dame it get envolved in other ways get a rebound, steal, assist.
RJ to me seems to stand around the preimeter and hangout, when he does get the ball and actually drives alot of the time he gets stripped, and turns over the ball.. If he doesnt get the foul called he comlpains to the ref's, which is different than most players but he doesnt get back on defense( its as if he gives up)....
There is no place on a le contending team for quiters....Plain and simple....
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