One of the interesting things I noticed in todays game, what that anytime he did anything remotely intangible, that is a stl/blk/reb etc, he ran the length of the court and jacked up a shot without even looking to pass it off, like he deserved a shot.
This is very "Milwaukee" like, and until we can shake this from his game, he has no value whatsoever.
Manu hasn't been Manu, but he's had the excuse of coming back from surgery.
AND Manu has won games for the Spurs this year. Either with scoring, assists, defense, hustle plays (the OKC lunge) . . . RJ has been the bigger disappointment by far.
And Manu probably hasn't been as big a disappointment as Parker, no one was expecting that big a drop off from Tony, if any at all. Manu everyone knew was on the downslope easily. Tony should be in his prime.
I saw that... I even saw Tony asking for it and RJ not even looking at him...
That said, I can't believe Pop can call a play for Finley out of a timeout, but can't do that for RJ... RJ's softness on defense is inexcusable, but his lack of integration and offense I put partly on Pop. This is something we discussed since the season started, and has not changed. When he's out there with Tony and Tim, he's simply a spot up three point shooter... even Blair gets more touches than him...
I don't put excuses. I think he had a bad game tonight, and overall, he has been underwhelming, especially his shooting. But I personally, didn't expect him to be at an All Star level, and honestly, I didn't think this team needed him to be at that level to win games. I also didn't think Tony needed to play at last season's level either, and carry such a big load. I thought with more talent, we would be more balanced. It just hasn't panned out.
Especially when Manu is just a player that gives you some good minutes against second units and is still better than the only point guard on the roster.
Are you serious? Tony looks worse for wear than Manu.
Can we call takebacks? I'd rather have Bruce, KT and Fab back at this point.
Tony hasn't been great this season but he still has been better than Manu.
And there is the bigger picture. Tony has carry the team the whole last year. It's not crazy to think that he will face some rough moments. OTOH, Manu has been injured for 18 month. Even if it is not his fault, he let Spurs down 2 years in a row. It's not crazy to think that he could come back strong with a revenge.
The healthy Ginobili we are seeing is a damn average player. The magic is gone and I don't know if it will be back one day.
No amount of message board arguing will convince either of us otherwise and I'm tired of reading arguments like that while my team is getting chode bloaded so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I like the "I'm better than that" when you are the one bringing the Manu vs. Tony argument. Priceless.
Uh, you were the first one to bring it up in a Richard Jefferson thread. The fact that Parker was worse tonight and has been a bigger disappointment than either Manu or RJ just makes it that much funnier.
I like the "I'm better than that" when you are the one bringing the Manu vs. Tony argument. Priceless.
Its not a Tony vs Manu argument. I'm making light of the parallelism between them; injuries and how it has affected their games. This season, right now, Manu is playing like he is coming back from injury, and improving. Tony looks and is playing like he is still injured.
I like the "I'm better than that" when you are the one bringing the Manu vs. Tony argument. Priceless.
I could have just as easily said RJ, or especially Dice, look worse than Manu. But the two of them are just sucking; Tony and Manu have been affected by injury. You said
and I simply pointed out that as far as players affected by injuries go, Tony looks worse for wear than Manu. And at THAT point in the argument is where we disagree, which is what I said in my post before.
Not a fact, it's your opinion.
12.1 ppg with a 38.7% FG% in January. I don't find he is improving.
But let's not forget the point.... both TP > & Manu > .
Yeah, okay.
is a bust. At least Manu is trying while TP is playing through his injury. I feel sorry for Holt for opening his checkbook and getting this ty play from . Seriously, how much time does he need to gel with this team? What a ing pussy
RJ is night and day from what he was on the Nets and Bucks... he simply does not function in San Antonio. No way in he's still here next year.
Manu carried the team in 2008 because Parker was injured. I just wanted to make sure you knew that. Manu carried us pretty much that whole regular season and got hurt in the playoffs. That is not anyone's fault. The only questionable thing Manu did was play in the Olympics when he should have rested so really he has only cost us 1 down year, not 2 years like you and other people are saying.
The MLE was used for Blair & Dice !
The Spurs needed that money because with Oberto & Thomas gone they were without bigs except Tim Duncan (& Bonner).
RJ
When your core players break down like they have here, there is not much you can do about it.
Manu had stretches in the 2007-2008 season where he was one of the five best players in the entire league and could carry the team for long stretches - a 44 point game in Cleveland comes to mind. He was unstoppable and dominant.
His injuries cropped up late in the year after some tough, grinding playoff series. The Spurs were toast. Manu has not been the player we saw in the 2007 season since that time.
TP had improved statistically for seven or eight years in a row and was our best player last year. Now he has broken down and is much worse than last season.
Duncan has been really good this year but is not getting the help he needs from his supporting cast (namely Manu and Tony) AT ALL.
Jefferson should change his number to 11 and his name to Williams. Actually Roy Williams may have had a slightly better season than is having. That is definitely not a good thing. At least RJ is not going to be a T-MAC type of burden on the franchise since the crazy contract is up after next year. I don't think the Spurs FO did a bad job of putting the team together this year based on what the expected top four players had done in the past. Unfortunately, the expected performance has not come. There are tangible reasons Manu and Tony having surprisingly bad seasons. I'm totally puzzled by Jefferson being a big fat bust.
This team is going nowhere. The core is broken right now. You can't make a late season trade to fix it. The tradeable assets are not there. The Spurs as a group are either unable or unwilling to defend. The formula for success here for the last 13 years has been to make it extremely difficult to score a basket or get to the free throw line. In fact, some of the best Spurs teams in the Duncan era could have terrible offensive stretches, but the team D would save the day. This year the opposing FG percentage has got to be much higher than in other years.
Only Tony Parker out of the TD, MG, RJ, TP group has a chance to improve in the next 1-2 years because he can get well physically if he gets off his feet for three months. Gino and Duncan are not going to get better than what they are now. They are too old for that.
I am resigned to the fact that this nucleus has hit the wall and there is nowhere to go but down. You don't lose to Utah, Houston, and Chicago (average or below average teams) at home and expect to be any kind of force in April or May. Completely unacceptable. I guess I am so used to good effort AND execution I have a hard time computing what I am seeing now.
What a disappointing season so far. Fixing this mess is going to be a teardown, not a touching up of what's already here.
The ownership group is not going to be in the mood next year to pay a $10-20MM luxury tax bill for a bunch of past their prime players. This is just sad to see.
It is a distinct possibility that the Spurs get into the lottery this year so they better hang on to their #1 draft picks the next 3-4 years. Those picks could be very valuble.
If Tiago Splitter was worried about playing time here in San Antonio, he shouldn't. From what I've seen, he can come here and get plenty of minutes.
Last edited by Harry Callahan; 01-26-2010 at 05:15 AM.
i don't know what's the saddest in this thread:
- the fact that people are able to argue that tony isn't better than manu this year again (17.1 ppg ; 50% ; ratio assists/bad passes=4.6 for tony against 12.8 ppg/ 40% / ratio assists/bad passes= 3.5 for manu)
- that that was Timvp himself that brought the useless tony vs manu thing in a thread about RJ.
well, at least we should all agree that Tony, Manu and RJ need all three to play better.
Last edited by kace; 01-26-2010 at 05:30 AM.
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