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  1. #276
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    If you don't confer free speech rights on a legal en y, then wars will follow.

    Who said that?

  2. #277
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Yes. Though McCain-Feingold offered an exemption, provided donations were from individuals only.

  3. #278
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Oh, Citizens United, right.

  4. #279
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    Just extrapolating. Bastiat originally applied it to trade.

  5. #280
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I couldn't disagree more with what Citizen's United says, but i'll defend to the death their right to say it. It's not their fault the SC went so far past the relief they asked for, to protect unions and for profit corporations too.

  6. #281
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    CU's problem was that they accepted donations from non-individuals.

  7. #282
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    The majority decided that it was not possible to discern political speech made by an individual versus that made by a synthetic, state chartered en y.
    Apparently true.

  8. #283
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    CU's problem was that they accepted donations from non-individuals.
    Corporate sponsorship. Gotcha.

  9. #284
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    What speech is exactly chilled if corporate sponsorship is excluded?

  10. #285
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    That's what I don't get, honestly. Money always gets by the regs.

  11. #286
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Not hard to be a cynic in these United States, but what is truly lost?

    The one thing that seems clear is the idea that individuals, instead of groups speaking through individuals, should not be a significant source of political expression.

  12. #287
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Let the people have whatever petty rules as they may think diminish corruption or the appearance of corruption in politics. The money will always find a way past them.

  13. #288
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    True, I will grant you that anything such as an outright ban on corporate donations of any type would never come close to passing, at least at the federal level.

  14. #289
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    The one thing that seems clear is the idea that individuals, instead of groups speaking through individuals, should not be a significant source of political expression.
    I think Citizen's United confirms it is a very significant source. A noble myth of corporate good-citizenship is promulgated.

    Without the benevolent and truly civic-minded assistance of corporations, we should all be lost for good information about politics and politicians.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 01-27-2010 at 03:11 AM. Reason: blued for ironic emphasis

  15. #290
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    I think Citizen's United confirms a noble myth of corporate good-citizenship. Without their benevolent and truly civic-minded assistance, we should all be lost for good information.
    Yes.

    Also, think about how political discourse these days is centered around certain "stakeholder" groups.

    The individual is lost in our politics, other than as the yokel who needs to be conned by a politician (backed by these stakeholder groups) to be elected into office to give the groups what they want.

  16. #291
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    Or, we find our meaning in political life by the groups to which we belong. To think that our political life should have regard for the individual as an individual, is heresy.

  17. #292
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    Who knows what the (little) people might do if they came to regard themselves as individuals, or gave a damn about individual liberty.

  18. #293
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Oh well, legal solemnities touching corporate advertising in the last 30 days before an election are now passe'.

  19. #294
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    Not to mention giving a damn about the usurpation and bas ization of their Cons ution.

    Of course, perhaps I give them too much credit. Conservatives, at least conservatives of an older vintage, were quite skeptical of the peoples' ability. Today's conservatives champion the people and dismiss "the elite." Though apparently "the people" has come to include General Electric and Boeing.

  20. #295
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Olly olly oxen free.

  21. #296
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    Some worry about a "socialist" takeover of the federal government which is owned by the Fortune 500.

  22. #297
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    it.

  23. #298
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    All resistance to corporate boards is normatively socialist in tone and effect.

  24. #299
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Why do you hate entrepreneurs, MarcusBryant?

  25. #300
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    Did I miss that in this latest cluster of a thread or are you engaging in subtle (for WaterCloset) mockery?

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