Reggie Miller : "LeBron James would make the Lakers a better team than Kobe does"

[TheMACHINE]

Is this some kind of joke?


hes not on the same level

If Jordan didnt win any rings...would he still be the greatest ever?

[TheMACHINE]

It's because no one was trying to put Magic, Bird, or KG on a level they don't belong on

Some delusional Laker fans out there believe Kobe should be in the talks of G.O.A.T because he finally led his team to ONE le. And they think Kobe's 4 ring total somehow correlates to Jordan's 6 but never factor in the way Jordan and Kobe won their championships. Sometimes you have to remind these kind of fools that Jordan won 6 les as bonafide numero uno. When Kobe won his first le he was a inconsistent rising star mixing good games with some downright atrocious ones. Yet, Kobe homers want to ignore that and scream "Kobe has 4 rings, put him up there with MJ"

Of course people are gonna argue against that .

So why is Lebron in Kobe's level? One championship as the lead guy and 4 as a side kick doesnt matter?

[TheMACHINE]

thank goodness no one compares LBJ to Jordan.

cuz we all know that Lebron > MJ sans championships.

[Chieflion]

So why is Lebron in Kobe's level? One championship as the lead guy and 4 as a side kick doesnt matter?

Where did the extra championship come from?

4+1=5

[Killakobe81]

good for you. I would take Lebron over KObe 100 times out of 100

Good for you and you would have the same number of les ...LOL

[namlook]

Yessir. I compared their production. Go back and check their numbers compared to what Big Z and Shaq are currently putting up. In case yall havent noticed Shaq is no longer the player that terrorized the league and Big Z is nowhere near being the all-star he once was.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Some players take reduced roles on certain teams that is not always indicative of how good they are. Shaq could still score 15-20 a game if he wanted to. Mihm and Kwame could never do that if they played their best game every day. Both Z and Shaq are former all-stars that are still way more effective than Mihm and Kwame ever were. It's a joke they are even being compared.

[namlook]

Where did the extra championship come from?

4+1=5

Consider the source.

[RsxPiimp]

I live in LA and watch tons of Laker games - all for the joy of watching them lose. I actually have always liked the Lakers - until Bryant got there. I now give away tickets to Laker games because I can't stand Laker fans.

Why can I not stand Laker fans? Because all they do is cling to a guy like Bryant, who ran Shaquille (the guy responsible for bringing three les to the city) out of town, then immediately cried to the front office to get him help.

The guy embodies the an hesis of team basketball, both on the court, and especially off the court. To me it's shameful that anybody would pull for this guy. Especially women. When I see a woman or little girl walking around in a Bryant jersey, my skin crawls. Do yourself a favor and read the police report from Colorado. The guy is, at best, a disgrace tot he League and to the storied Laker organization. And for Laker fans who continually say, "He wasn't convicted of any crime - he didn't do anything." Please, read the police report. It's all in Bryant's words talking about exactly what he did - at least what he admitteded to the police that he did. By the way, this is also when he mentioned Shaquille's name - a teammate - when Bryant himself was being questioned about an alleged sexual assault. Shaquille O'Neal wasn't even in the state of Colorado at the time.

The only positive thing I can say about Bryant is that he's able to put the ball in the hoop if he gets enough shots, and that's a ton of shots I might add. If that attribute makes Laker fans happy, so be it. He's a guy playing a team sport, but he's playing for himself. Always has, always will. That's obvious to fans of every other team in the league, but not to Laker fans.

Read the police report.

Some people are either, dense or just misinformed. Buss and Shaq admitted they both dont want to be a associated after the 2002-2003 season. That's a fact. And people really need to give that rape charge a rest. Seriously.

I
Also RsxPimp, regarding the whole plug a superstar in place of Bron and the results are the same...thats arguable. Kobe from before Pau arrived, had Odom as his second best player. Is that any worse than Mo Williams? He had Mihm and Kwame putting up similar production to what Big Z and Shaq are putting up right now. He had Caron Butler as a swingman, a solid defensive player and better offensive player than A. Parker. I dont think Kobe's team was better than what Bron has currently, but there also isnt an astronomical difference in talent. Bron's team currently is arguably the best in the league, Kobe's Lakers back than where nowhere close to being that. I know this is hypothetical , but so is your suggestion that Kobe on the Cavs would lead a less talented team to the same results. Like I said its arguable.

Odom is probably a much valuable piece than Mo Williams...if he gets his head in the game. The problem with Odom is not his talent but rather his mental approach on a nightly basis. He was good but not second option good. And Im not even going to go in lengths proving how aweful Kobe's cast were for the first couple of years post Shaq.

Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Smush Parker,Devean Geroge,Sasha Vujacic Brian Cook ?Their third best player before was Chris Mihm who had a season ending injury and never recovered. Those players are night and day worst than Varejao, Delonte West, Damon Jones, Devin Brown,Joe Smith,Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Bobbie Gibson,Wally Sczerbiak and Ben Wallace. Ferry has always surrounded Lebron with a good mix of players that displays a propensity to play defense and shoot the lights out.



Good thing you mentioned Caron Butler. Had LA kept him instead of sending the guy to Washington for Kwame Brown, he would've elevated his game and status as an All-Star playing next to Kobe. People give Kobe such a hard time for his 04-05 season but also fail to realize that, Kobe missed 16 games, Lamar missed 18 games and the coach left midpoint of the season.

[21_Blessings]

Why isn't this crap in the Kobe thread? Ya'll all terrible.

[RsxPiimp]

Why isn't this crap in the Kobe thread? Ya'll all terrible.

Chris ards started the thread, surprised no one has moved this yet. This open a gate for people to create a billion Kobe threads from now on.

[TheMACHINE]

Good thing you mentioned Caron Butler. Had LA kept him instead of sending the guy to Washington for Kwame Brown, he would've elevated his game and status as an All-Star playing next to Kobe. People give Kobe such a hard time for his 04-05 season but also fail to realize that, Kobe missed 16 games, Lamar missed 18 games and the coach left midpoint of the season.

Also, Kobe had to start from scratch. No Malone, No Payton, No Fisher, No Shaq, No Horry, No Fox, No Phil Jackson.

[Metheny]

If Jordan didnt win any rings...would he still be the greatest ever?

Obviously not why would anyone in there right mind call someone the greatest ever if he can't win rings?

[RsxPiimp]

Obviously not why would anyone in there right mind call someone the greatest ever if he can't win rings?

Well, people are already calling Lebron as the greatest SF ever.

[JamStone]

People were calling Michael Jordan one of the best ever before he won any les. He had that 32/8/8 season before he won a championship. He won a league MVP before winning a championship. He was putting up numbers people hadn't seen since Oscar, and against what was viewed as a much tougher league.

So, it's understandable why LeBron might be called the best SF ever for some. I don't think he's surpassed Bird yet, but I see why some people might think at least statistically why he's already there. But, if he never wins a ring, the view will definitely change. Just like Jordan, had he not won any rings, people wouldn't be talking about him being the greatest ever over guys like Wilt or Magic or Kareem or Oscar. Part of it is actual greatness and statistical dominance, but the other part of it is expectation of LeBron that he will be a champion in the future. People probably viewed Dominique similarly (but not to the same extent) as a great, great player who would be one of the greatest ever in the mid to late 80s. Viewed as the same type of talent as Dr. J and Bird. But as his career went on and it was apparent that he'd never win a le, a lot of his shine dulled. We don't talk about him in the same breath as Michael or Magic or Bird. He's viewed as a second or even third tier superstar.

LeBron absolutely has the potential to be one of the greatest players ever. His statistical production is pretty much there already. His game still needs a little polish and improvement but it seems like that will get there too. But, if he never wins a le, he simply won't get there. Period.

[JamStone]

Scottie was a great player dont get me wrong but hes not in jordans league birds league or magics league as ppl mistakenly always say he was a major player as if jordan played with a shaq lvl player or duncan lvl player

I never said Pippen was on the same level as Shaq or Duncan. I was responding to the comment that Pippen was "nothing" when Jordan left.

I've read a few of your posts in this thread, and you seem to misconstrue a lot of comments, especially sarcasm.

[Fabbs]

the sky is blue.

[Metheny]

Well, people are already calling Lebron as the greatest SF ever.

thats because theres people like you who are idiots hes extremely good and has a bright future ahead of him but as of right now hes not the greatest SF ever. I'm not saying that in 2-3 he won't be considered otherwise though.

[Metheny]

I never said Pippen was on the same level as Shaq or Duncan. I was responding to the comment that Pippen was "nothing" when Jordan left.

I've read a few of your posts in this thread, and you seem to misconstrue a lot of comments, especially sarcasm.

You seem to put pippen up there as if he was such a dominating player like micheal had the second best player in the league or something. People miscontrue alot of player actually i do apologize if i took what you said wrong but it seemed like you were saying pippen was as dominating as MJ.

[JamStone]

You seem to put pippen up there as if he was such a dominating player like micheal had the second best player in the league or something. People miscontrue alot of player actually i do apologize if i took what you said wrong but it seemed like you were saying pippen was as dominating as MJ.

That's not what I was suggesting, not close to what I was suggesting. I was suggesting Pippen was more than a "nothing" player. But it's cool. I was just responding to what I felt was something you misconstrued.

[Metheny]

People were calling Michael Jordan one of the best ever before he won any les. He had that 32/8/8 season before he won a championship. He won a league MVP before winning a championship. He was putting up numbers people hadn't seen since Oscar, and against what was viewed as a much tougher league.

So, it's understandable why LeBron might be called the best SF ever for some. I don't think he's surpassed Bird yet, but I see why some people might think at least statistically why he's already there. But, if he never wins a ring, the view will definitely change. Just like Jordan, had he not won any rings, people wouldn't be talking about him being the greatest ever over guys like Wilt or Magic or Kareem or Oscar. Part of it is actual greatness and statistical dominance, but the other part of it is expectation of LeBron that he will be a champion in the future. People probably viewed Dominique similarly (but not to the same extent) as a great, great player who would be one of the greatest ever in the mid to late 80s. Viewed as the same type of talent as Dr. J and Bird. But as his career went on and it was apparent that he'd never win a le, a lot of his shine dulled. We don't talk about him in the same breath as Michael or Magic or Bird. He's viewed as a second or even third tier superstar.

LeBron absolutely has the potential to be one of the greatest players ever. His statistical production is pretty much there already. His game still needs a little polish and improvement but it seems like that will get there too. But, if he never wins a le, he simply won't get there. Period.

this is so dumb he won 6 championships DONT BRING IN THE WHAT IF HE DIDN"T ARGUMENT thats the dumbest thing ever so what if wilt didn't win or kareem they did win and thats why theyre amazing players.

[resistanze]

this is so dumb he won 6 championships DONT BRING IN THE WHAT IF HE DIDN"T ARGUMENT thats the dumbest thing ever so what if wilt didn't win or kareem they did win and thats why theyre amazing players.

[Metheny]

don't really understand whats so funny? wilt and kareem were both exceptional players are in the top 10 list for sure SO WHAT IF THEY DIDN'T WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. Kinda dumb don't you think?

[RsxPiimp]

Jordan's early success easily trumps Lebron, its a no contest and should not be used for comparison, simply because MJ transcends the game when the league was all about Magic and Bird. MJ earned the "GOAT" status because of how he revolutionized the image of the league, aside from the fact that he's also the game's best product.


Lebron never did that. He's not even its most famous athlete. Up at this point, Kobe is much more adored and a world wide phenomenon figure compared to Lebron.


Lebron is not the greatest SF at this point. The game is not all about statistics. He's a bigger and much more complete version of Dominique Wilkins. Shows us the rings Bron then we'll automatically drop all these doubts.

[TheMACHINE]

Obviously not why would anyone in there right mind call someone the greatest ever if he can't win rings?

Then why is Lebron > Kobe?

[JamStone]

this is so dumb he won 6 championships DONT BRING IN THE WHAT IF HE DIDN"T ARGUMENT thats the dumbest thing ever so what if wilt didn't win or kareem they did win and thats why theyre amazing players.

You're really having trouble with reading comprehension or following along the thread.

Someone else talked about what if Jordan didn't win les. And, I'm not dismissing Jordan at all. I'm comparing the perception of Jordan before he won les with the perception of LeBron now.

Even before Jordan won his first le, people were talking about him being one of the greatest players ever, just like they do now with LeBron. When Jordan went on to win multiple les, that basically cemented his greatness.

People talk about LeBron as already being one of the greatest players ever. Now things can go one of three ways for LeBron assuming he stays healthy. He can win multiple les as the man and go down as probably a top 5 maybe even top 3 player ever in the history of the game. He can win no les and still have a remarkable statistical career and still probably be a top 25 player ever, but definitely not anywhere close to the discussion of greatest ever. Or he can win one, maybe two, les but has to get on a stacked team to do so, where he'll be viewed more as like a Kevin Garnett type guy but still one of the all time greats.

Now please try to follow the posts and the thread better before attacking people, especially if you don't really understand what is being discussed.