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Wow. Look at Pau with a PER of 22. If Kobe will just get this man 2-3 more touches a game, he would easily be a 25 PER guy. But I guess Kome would rather have the glory, if you know what I mean
Just sayin...
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli...r%2fstatistics
Wow. Look at Pau with a PER of 22. If Kobe will just get this man 2-3 more touches a game, he would easily be a 25 PER guy. But I guess Kome would rather have the glory, if you know what I mean
Tlong has a valid point....You have to ask yourself if Mitch should trade Kobe for Oden while he still can...
good point.
and Oden does it with 11 extra pounds in the crotch area
Hence why Per is a BS stat.
Oden also had a sticky thread long before bryant on spurstalk.. its pretty obvious oden>>>>>bryant
nazr mohammad has a higher per than Andrew Bynum
PER isn't a BS stat at all, it's actually a very accurate stat..the flaws of PER are that it's affected by minutes(lower minutes for good players will generally give you a higher PER..so Oden only plays 24 MPG, which is part of the reason his PER is so high), it underrates assists, and it doesn't account for defense, since there isn't really a stat that actually accurately shows defensive ability(it accounts for blocks and steals, but that doesn't mean too much in the grand scheme of defense)..
Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Olajuwon, O'Neal, Duncan(#1 in playoff PER twice), Robinson, both Malones, Erving, West, Robertson, Barkley, Garnett, Nowitzki, Wade..these guys all finished in the top 2 in PER, most of them did it for multiple seasons(Magic being the only one out, because of PER admittedly(by Hollinger too) underrating the assist)..
Russell is missing from that list for obvious reasons..
Kobe hasn't done it..advanced stats don't seem to agree with Kobe like they do with all the other greats for some reason..part of the reason his fans hate advanced stats and hate stats in general..
It's not completely BS, but people that say PER is what determines the value of a player are full of . PER is a statistical tool that gives some information, but it's not all that useful for comparing players. Players that play different positions can't really have PER's compared reliably across positions. And even players who play the same positions on different teams and that have different players around them can have differences in PER for factors that are related to the team rather than the player.
Woooooo, they hate PER..it accurately portrays pretty much every top 20 all-time player except Kobe..wooo..
And how many games will Oden play in his first three seasons?
not BS.
The best players in history also happened to have astronomical PER.
Jordan, Shaq,Olajuwon,Lebron for example all had great PER season. KG too when he won the MVP, same with Dirk.
HATE PER because of all the crap ... involved.
I never said kobe was an all time GOAT like many on here ...simply he is the nbest 2 guard and best player RIGHT NOW ...
I dont need stats to tell me that MJ, Magic and bird were better so far BECAUSE i saw that with my OWN eyes not some silly stat by a non ball-playing geek ...
Guys that fall on the stats swords are foolish. PER loves Karl Malone and he was horrible in the clutch and VASTLY overrated I take stockton over him anyday ...kobe too.
Malone never had a great PER in comparison to his peers.
Kevin Love > Brandon Roy
Kevin Love brings a lot more tangibles to a team than Brandon Roy.
Hence the "greater than" sign as opposed to an "equals" or "less than" sign.
sons the formulas are nothing but bull that Hollinger concocts and uses to justify his preferences for certain players.
Yes, but you were being sarcastic obviously and you were trying to prove to people that PER is a ridiculous measuring stick.
Harlem said both Malone had top 2 PER's ... Dr.J though great also overrated a bit IMHO as well ...
Look use PER to on kobe or whomever else you hate in the NBA only stats that matters to me are rings.
My top 10 (players since 1980)
1. MJ (6)
2. Magic (5)
3. Duncan (4)
4. Kobe (4)
5. shaq (4)
6. Bird (3)
7. Hakeem (2)
8. Isiah (2)
9. KG (1)
10. Wade (1)
All le winners all NBA and/or Finals MVP what is the common factor RINGS!!!
I admit i would take hakeem and Bird over Shaq ...but the RINGS matter most!!!
I think you are underrating Bird here. He should be above Duncan, Kobe and Shaq. I think Hakeem is above Shaq and arguably above Kobe and Duncan. You are overrating Isiah a bit too much though. He is not top 10 since 1980.
Malone had one league leading PER (96 season) where he coincidentally won an MVP, but Malone did not even ranked in the Top 25 PER of all time (in terms of single season performance), he was a consistent performer Ill give him that. Lebron, Jordan, Wade, David Robinson, Wilt Chamberlain and Shaq were some of the very few players that elapsed the 30 + PER mark.
Shaq did it 4 times (6 if we're going to round his 2 seasons were he had a 29.7 and 29.5 year)
Jordan also had 4 30+ PER (add another 2 if we're going to add 2 years where he had a 29.7 and 29.8 year)
Wade and D Robinson once, Lebron twice and Wilt thrice.
Not surprising is the fact that those players also have 16 NBA les.
Neither PER or per-game statistics take into account intangible elements like compe ive drive, leadership, durability, conditioning, or hustle, largely because there is no real way to quan atively measure these things.
Killakobe said it best when he stated he doesn't need some statistical formula to tell you who the better player is. Just his eyes. If you know the game and all the intangibles you know damn well stats only tell a small % of the story. Maybe you stat hounds should actually play some ball or at least watch objectively and base your opinions from a basketball sense as opposed to number crunching.
case in point.... bill russell 90th on the PER career charts at 18.88 and 11 les
barkley, Malone, Nowitzki, Garnett, Yoa all above 23.00 and one le between them.
What wins les guys? Defense. PER does not take defense into account accurately and Hollinger has even admitted so.
I'll take the les..... and you guys can have your effecient losses!
LOL gotta love the PER haters, they're usually fans of the same players..
BTW, you can't compare players by their career PER number or compare PER numbers from different seasons, because the average PER of the NBA is different in every season..you can only accurately compare them in regards to their ranking in specific seasons..
Obviously PER isn't the only ranking you should use, but it IS a very good stat..
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