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Oh and Elson sucked. 2007 was the absolute peak of his career ... and that should tell you how bad he was the rest of the time. At one point this year, he had the second lowest PER in the NBA -- ahead of only Fabricio Oberto
Yeah, I don't feel too sorry for Mahinmi because he deserves a good part of the blame for why he never got a legit chance. In summer league, if he even gave a quarter of the effort he exhibits during real NBA games, the Spurs (and the rest of the league) couldn't ignore him. He has treated summer league as a way to get in some jogging and stay in shape. He ups his effort level a little bit for preseason. Playing like Wilt Chamberlain during regular season minutes is great but you have to give the team a reason to give you consistent minutes in the first place. We've seen a number of players over the year earn regular season minutes by playing hard in summer league.
Don't get me wrong, Pop deserves blame too because now the Spurs will have likely wasted a ton of time developing a player they will lose in the summer, but Mahinmi isn't the innocent victim in all of this.
Oh and Elson sucked. 2007 was the absolute peak of his career ... and that should tell you how bad he was the rest of the time. At one point this year, he had the second lowest PER in the NBA -- ahead of only Fabricio Oberto
And don't forget it wasn't just the Summer League. Pop played him (or tried to) plenty during the preseason, but the guy just couldn't stay out of foul trouble. Fast forward 3 months, the guy is given another chance, and he makes the same silly mistakes against the league's scrubs.
Blair picked up fouls a lot in his 1st month and Dumbassovich did not completely ban him to the bench (altho he probably thought about it and looks like he is thinking about it again)
So for a 21 year old rookie to be banned to the bench for picking up some fouls in an otherwise excellent performance vs NJ is bull .
I suppose if instead of playing overagressive defense and picking up some fouls Ian would play vagina defense ala Finley he would get minutes?
pssssssh
So the other 4 players on the floor were sooooo good when Elson played 20 minutes and the Spurs went 19-2. How?Oh and Elson sucked. 2007 was the absolute peak of his career ... and that should tell you how bad he was the rest of the time. At one point this year, he had the second lowest PER in the NBA -- ahead of only Fabricio Oberto
Same question the Championship with Fabbs and Elson.
I'm so shocked hearing that from you...
The rationalizing of Ian getting buried is getting funny because of how far people have to go to excuse the powers that be.
By the way . . . all those mistakes he made with fouls in SL and pre-season and NJ . . . they weren't there against Memphis.
He didn't have a single moving screen called, which was his kryptonite all SL and pre-season. He was called for 4 fouls (and we all know 2 of them were the kind of bull that rookies/pseudo-rooks get blasted with) . . . but he also drew 4 fouls. Including one where Randolph held him to keep him from running the court because ZR knew he couldn't keep up with him.
And re: his practicing . . . I've posted similar responses time and again which people ignore so they can continue throwing blame on Ian.
Every injury he's ever had, came from practice and and the pursuit of getting better. Torn pec = working out at the facility prior to summer league. Invisible bone chips = Grgurich's big man camp.
Check out his body from the U-18 game. He's put a lot of work into his body to get it into a NBA body. , he's so rocked up he makes Elson look like a twig. That takes work ethic. As a contrast, Jackie Butler had the body of a fat disgusting slug and the slowness to match, and the Spurs loved it and gave him 2.5 per.
And anyone who watched his growth as an offensive player over the years knows that takes work. This guy had a worse offensive game than Petro. He was the ultimate remedial Stromile. But his game has changed so much, and none of that even was featured in his Nets-Mem appearances. The game progression . . . that doesn't happen with a guy who doesn't practice hard.
Work with Roy Rogers? He did that. Go to d-league? He did that. Rest his ankle on the Spurs advice? He did that. Get jerked around and not play for what, 6 weeks, only to get activated and thrown into the fire against one of the best young bigs in the entire world . . . he didn't shrink, or use being out of shape as an excuse.
Besides . . . even if he doesn't shine in practice, he wouldn't be the first player to underperform in practice/workout settings and deliver in gametime. Chris Douglas-Roberts cost himself a first-round selection and guaranteed money because he had the work-outs from . And the word was already out that he wasn't a good practice player. So he fell to the second. And guess what? He has a legit NBA career now. Even for a horrible Nets team, he's showing he can play.
Blair played most of his minutes in the preseason and Pop was able to take a good look at him. Plus Blair learned pretty quickly what to do in general to manage his fouls.Blair picked up fouls a lot in his 1st month and Dumbassovich did not completely ban him to the bench (altho he probably thought about it and looks like he is thinking about it again
Unlike Blair, this kid has been playing against NBA-scrub compe ion for a long time. And Pop has been taking a look at Ian for a couple of seasons now.
The problem is that none of the fouls were from playing aggressive defense. They're all hand-check, moving screen kind of fouls.
Ultimately this is going to end like Scola/Elson/Nazr/Rasho/Tolliver... he will find a team that plays him and then we'll see what he looks like... I would say that the only major screwup in the front court as far as letting players go for this FO has been Scola. That's why I give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
We can speculate as much as we want about Ian being a bust or Spurs having made a mistake by giving up on him, but truth is that none of us really knows how good Ian is. I personally believe in him and think he will be a good NBA player.
Ian will likely play for another team after the trade deadline or next year, we will then know who was right about him.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Giving up on this kid, if in fact that what it turns out to be, is a straight-up, dumb-ass move. The Spurs frontline is already inferior to the Fakers, Blazers and Nuggets. Duncan is already carrying most of the offensive and defensive burden. He can't play back-to-back games and yet this coaching staff feels they can simply throw away a young, athletic big, who can rebound and block shots. Obviously, we don't know how good he is or will be, but not knowing and kicking him out is unacceptable.
The tide of the NBA has changed considerably. Teams are no longer winning with strictly veteran-laden teams. Pop needs to "get over himself" and accept the realization that sometimes you have to match athleticism and size with the same. At this point, the Spurs will NEVER be able to contend with the Fakers.
Wait a second . . . all those guys except Scola were given chances to play. Even Tolliver was given numerous chances to play, the guy had 8 games with at least 10 minutes. And he had a 3 game stretch of over 20 minutes, with all the big men like TD, Oberto and KT healthy as well. And he wasn't a Spur after the end of January.
Mahinmi hasn't been given a damn thing.
He had one very good game against Brook Lopez.
Then he had one okay game against Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol, and a little time against rookie Thabeet. Spurs fans like to hyperventilate over his line in that game but if they actually watched it again and paid attention, he wasn't bad. McDyess has had at least 10 worse games than Ian did against worse big men.
And sure, he had fouls. But like I pointed out, he didn't have any moving screens, he actually drew four fouls, and I can bring you stats from Blair's first several games and draw foul comparisons that would make people ignore my post. When it comes to these refs, most of whom never reffed a game with Ian before, he's a rook. He'll get rook calls.
Ian's season was last year. Unfortunately for him and the Spurs, he got injured and missed the entire season. There was no Blair then. The Spurs moved somewhere else. They're going to have Blair for a few more years, so obviously they rather develop that rookie instead of Ian. There's so much time you can hand to rookies on a team that's trying to contend.
To me . . . the mistake isn't about who's right or wrong about Ian. Waiting until he does one thing or another for a different team here or abroad won't address the mistake.
You believe he will be a good NBA player. I believe he will be a good NBA player. Others believe that he isn't a good NBA player. The disagreements aren't where I get frustrated with the Spurs.
The sin on the Spurs part isn't that they don't think he is or can be a good NBA player. It's that they won't let him prove it to them either way.
The fault lies with the Spurs for not finding out what he can do in games. It doesn't matter if he goes on to be a scrub or an all-star. One NBA pre-season start where he gets moving screens isn't enough to judge him. Nor is a game against Brook Lopez in the regular season.
In a time and age where size matters and the Spurs have been shuffled lineups desperately to match up, even going the opposite way with micro-ball, to not at least find out if he can or can't play is a dereliction of duty. If he sucks, then he sucks. Even if he has a fine career elsewhere, the Spurs can look in the mirror and honestly say, "Hey, we put him in there for a good stretch and he just wasn't good for us." That's fine. If he sucks elsewhere, then it will just confirm what he did for the Spurs.
But refusing to find out what Ian could or couldn't do while he still had some shred of basketball conditioning left . . . is not forgivable considering everything else factored in this season.
There was time this year. Whether it was back-to-backs, TD sit-downs, McDyess sit-downs, anti-small ball, or even ludicrous moments like sitting TD for a whole quarter against Toronto, only putting him in down 12 while cold on the bench and him having to grind it for 29 minutes to get them close.
There were opportunities this year. , just having Ian active during the first month so he could get in during blowouts would have been worthwhile.
If they're actually thinking that, it's a bull excuse. Develop them both. Ratliff will likely be gone next year. Dice probably the year after that and Duncan who knows. It's not like they have Gasol and Bynum ahead this kid.
Besides everything else, this team is losing games.
Hey, I don't necessarily disagree with you. But the day the Spurs decided they were not going to pick up his option, is the day they decided that whatever minutes are left for rookies are going to go to Dejuan.
I mean, I'm already complaining that Blair only played 10 minutes last game and I suspect it might turn into a trend. I don't like any of it.
They already decided they are not going to keep him, and so Ian is going to be a free agent. They have little incentive at all to develop him now.
I see the refusal to give Ian a bigger opportunity to show what he is worth as a sign that Spurs are damn sure about their evaluation on Ian. If there isn't a single little doubt in your mind that a player isn't NBA material, there is nothing to find out.
If Spurs have rightfully evaluated that Ian is a scrub, I can't really blame for having done that evaluation quickly.
If Ian ends up as a good player, it will even be a biggest blow for Spurs.
And therefore no reason to play him against New Jersey and then HOLY CRAP HE DID WHAT? HOW MANY REBOUNDS? OH . UM WELL it. Just keep his ass on the bench and maybe he'll get hit by a car or something in the offseason so we don't look stupid.
Okay, let's concede Mahinmi doesn't give much effort in practice and didn't give it his all during Summer League. Pop, out of the goodness of his heart, decides to give Mahinmi meaningful minutes in the NJ game. He does well.
Wouldn't you think he'd get a chance in the next game to see if he can duplicate the effort against the Laker bigs? Nope.
But surely, he'll get some time against the young, athletic Thunder on the backend of a back-to-back? None.
Showcase? Maybe. Hopefully, this becomes clearer after the trade deadline.
The lack of opportunities I don't think has anything to do with rookies or Blair getting developed. It's just straight opportunities. Pop has already been on record that Ratliff wasn't going to be playing some games this year . . . but still kept him on the active roster. It's a disgrace.
Ian I think isn't so much in the 'developing phase'. He's in the 'he could play' phase. At least physically he's matured. He's been around the league plenty. His performances so far this year add credibility to that. Sure he could get better, but he's at a point where if he gets minutes, he could contribute without having his hand held. He already knows the system, no developing there at least.
And re: the no incentive to play a guy who they're not keeping . . . I used to adhere to that as well.
Until I realized, "So what?". If they're not going to keep him, that doesn't mean they shouldn't use him and get whatever they can while they have him. If Ian plays well and walks to bigger money . . . so what, they have Splitter. If Ian plays like crap in limited minutes and skulks off back to France, so what, they have Splitter. The no-contract + no-bird-rights reason seems to only make sense when it's out of spite. And that's an unfortunate way to run personnel, but maybe not too surprising.
If McDyess and Blair and Bonner as a whole all start playing so awesomely that there's no time for Ian, that's cool as a reason for no Ian. Anything else is just . . . kind of lame.
I agree with most of what objective has to say. I wanted the Spurs to give Mahinmi at least 10-12 starts early in the season so they could get a good read on him. Not doing that has left the Spurs in their current predicament. Considering that McDyess starts slow and Duncan can use all the rest he can get, giving Mahinmi that chance made a lot of sense. I don't know how someone can argue Pop didn't make a mistake in this situation. As it stands now, everyone is screwed -- the Spurs wasted an ungodly amount of man hours while Mahinmi is stuck in a holding pattern when he should be actively learning the game.
But like I said, Mahinmi isn't blameless in all of this. I rewatched some of the summer league games and the guy is casually jogging up and down the court most of the time. He rarely tries hard for rebounds and commits dumb foul after dumb foul. And then I watch what he's done in the NBA and it doesn't even compare. He sprints from end to end, he crashes the boards like he's a taller version of Blair and just generally plays with 100 times more energy. Even his fouls aren't dumb on the NBA level -- they are just out being too aggressive most of the time.
Even in his interviews around summer league time, he talks about how he's just basically going through the motions. For someone looking to break into the NBA, that's just inexcusable. If he gave complete effort in summer league and was mentally engaged, he could have been a monster. Instead, he was about as uninspiring as it gets.
But yeah, even after watching him sleep through summer league, I was still all for giving Mahinmi those starts.
P.S.
This situation is even more complicated than it appears. I don't want to name names but there are two very prominent people in the organization who are extremely high on Mahinmi ... and they too are perplexed by what has transpired.
I don't think he even as to end up as a 'good player'. Even if he only ever gets to "Francisco Elson" level, that's enough to be a damnation against the Spurs. Even though Elson was a 3rd-stringer, he's still had at least a 7 year NBA career and got some team to pay him $3 million a year at one point. And that's when he didn't even start his NBA career until he was 27 and didn't have a first-round guaranteed contract to pad the years.
That's a legit NBA player. Maybe a fringe NBA player, but still legit. And for better or worse was in the rotation of a le winning team. Regardless of the value of his contributions to that le, there he was.
Anything that isn't a complete wash-out Jackie Butler flameout will be a blow to the Spurs.
And speaking of reasons to doubt the Spurs evaluations . . . Fattie Coat-thief
I wanted the Spurs to give Ratliff at least consistent 10 mpg or so. Some people kept claiming (and I'm sure somebody still is) that Ratliff is being saved for the playoffs, but I really don't see Pop trotting out a guy that basically has 3 games worth of playing time with the team this season. So that guy is a waste (unless he's mentoring players, which would suck because I thought we already had Finley for that).
If there's only 10 minutes for Blair, according to this coaching staff, then I don't think they're going to split 5 and 5 with Ian. To me, when Bonner went down it was a great chance to see Ian, and even Ratliff. But they shortened the rotation instead. I don't know what they're thinking, but we'll find out soon enough.
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