Pop vs. Phil

[picc84]

Missing the point, it's not about methods, it's about results.

Aren't the two correlated?

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't see it..maybe if you guys mean offensive talent, but clearly we don't have as much overall talent..there's a whole other side of the floor, not just offense..also, more importantly..

Prime Duncan >>> Current Duncan(slightly better offensively, significantly better defensively)..

Prime Manu >>> Current Manu..no argument here..

Parker of the last few years(I won't just say last year, because maybe it was an anomaly, although I don't believe that) > Current Parker..

That alone will heavily bring down a team's overall talent..1-D offensive players like Bonner and Mason don't significantly change a team's overall talent..

[ShoogarBear]

Aren't the two correlated?

When it comes to Pop vs. Phil, no. The point is that come the playoffs, Phil would have this team ready to play. It doesn't appear that Pop will.

[Killakobe81]

For everything you think Pop does wrong and Phil does right, there is something Pop does right and Phil does wrong.

Amen brother! I have been there with Phil but I said if we won teh t itle LAST year I would lay off him this one.

Look both guy are HOF coaches IMHO ...who is better BEFORE last season i said Pop and Riley were BETTER than Phil but last year he won me over ...the Lakers were good but not as good as the Shaq/kobe or MJ/Pipp teams ...

But he won ...

[Cane]

Its not so much about coaching as its about:



The Lakers, even with Phil Jackson coaching, were a first round exit team without that trade/collusion in 2005-06 and 2006-07.

The difference really is Pau Gasol and the West's inability to stack up enough talent to compete with that infamous acquisition.

Looking at the "what ifs" there really aren't that many players available for trade this past summer that would've skyrocketed our Spurs or any Western team into contending with Kobe/Artest/Odom/Bynun/Gasol.

On top of that the big three have really played underwhelmingly including Mr. Duncan. Their stats may look okay, except for Ginobili's FG%, but their presence and ability to hold off against the opposing team's best is nowhere near what it needs to be and probably will never reach such heights against LA. Hard to think of too many games, its hard to think of even one, where one of the Spurs big 3 stepped up and carried the team in the 4th like whats expected of star talent.

As for the supporting cast and Jefferson - nothing needs to be said about them.

[Fabbs]

Last night TNT showed Popa ing on the bench to Duncan.
What was that all about?

[picc84]

When it comes to Pop vs. Phil, no. The point is that come the playoffs, Phil would have this team ready to play. It doesn't appear that Pop will.

According to what? Every time Phillip has went deep into the playoffs, he's had either the two best players in the league (Kobe, Shaq), or a top 2 player in the league (Kobe) who did as much coaching as he did. Every time Pop has gone into the playoffs with Duncan playing at that level, he's made similar runs. They were a Manu foul away from a repeat in 2006. The reason the Spurs got past the Suns and Hornets in 2008 was because of Pops gameplans and adjustments.

Guess what kind of adjustments Phillip makes in-game? Jack . He comes up with great gameplans, but as soon as the other team figures it out and it doesn't work anymore, he just sits on his ass, even if they're going on a 20-0 rape run. He's a damn good strategic coach but almost ing worthless as a tactical one. If you think Pop is stubborn and Phillip would be a breath of fresh air you'd be in for one gargle of a surprise.

Once he's decided someone is 'good for the triangle', thats pretty much it. If you're tired of seeing Finley out there i'd love to see you after Phillip got ahold of the team. Old - check. Veteran - check. REPUTATION as a good shooter no matter what reality is - check. Thats 30mpg for him right there. That alone would have you crying for Phillips head after about 3 weeks. And God help you if he brings Derek Fisher and Luke Walton with him. God help you son.

[HarlemHeat37]

Picc is spot-on here..as I said, coaching is very overrated when it comes to positive gains..

Phil Jackson is a good coach, but he isn't winning without the talent that he has..

[Obstructed_View]

Picc is spot-on here..as I said, coaching is very overrated when it comes to positive gains.

Not for negative ones, though. Pop has cost the team wins because he meddles, puts together bizarre lineups and develops grudges against individual players. Jackson lets his players play, which is why he's accused of frontrunning. At some point you have to stop trying to be so clever, especially when your team has talent.

[ShoogarBear]

If coaching is so overrated, then why did a Dallas team with Finley in his prime plus three years worth of future MVPs never get very far? Why did a Phoenix team with more talent EVERY YEAR than the Spurs get their asses whipped EVERY YEAR?

Phil had the talent, sure, but name the other coaches who would have won with those Laker teams. Pop wouldn't have had the first idea what to do with that circus.

If Pop and Phil traded teams at the beginning of the season, the odds would be 50-50 on the Spurs winning the West.

[Spurminator]

You can't win without talent, but you don't win TEN RINGS unless you're a really great coach. Phil had a huge hand in making Shaq, Jordan and Kobe who they are.

[picc84]

If coaching is so overrated, then why did a Dallas team with Finley in his prime plus three years worth of future MVPs never get very far? Why did a Phoenix team with more talent EVERY YEAR than the Spurs get their asses whipped EVERY YEAR?

Phil had the talent, sure, but name the other coaches who would have won with those Laker teams. Pop wouldn't have had the first idea what to do with that circus.

If Pop and Phil traded teams at the beginning of the season, the odds would be 50-50 on the Spurs winning the West.

Coaching isn't that overrated. Phillip Jackson is.

Don't get me wrong, Phillip is one of the best coaches in the league today. But if you think he is SO GOOD that you could give him this Spurs team and watch them go through the west than booooooy have you Spurs fans been taken for a ride. We almost lost to the corpse of the Houston ing Rockets last year. Why? Because Rick Adelman put his coaching foot so far up Phillips ass he was coughing up bunions.

If all it takes for Pop to win a le is a prime Tim and a few role players, there's no doubt in my mind he'd take Shaq and Kobe to 3 championships. As far as X's and O's go, Pop blows Phillip out of the ing water. All that personality handling crap is bull . Phillip's lazy ass basically gave them a few books and asked nicely for them to not kill each other and that was it. People act like he hypnotized the two of them, when both of them were already smart and good enough to know trying to kill each other ON THE COURT was self-destructive. .

[poop]

Was this actually a debate?

its funny i was pinked last season following a thread i posted on Pj being better than Pop and now heres the site mod and owner saying the same thing.

i wish i would have chosen a standard generic spurs-star-themed name and i probably wouldnt have got so much poop from people

[poop]

bottom line, is if Pop had been coaching the Lakers bynum would have never been developed (mahinmi) and s.brown would be perma-dleagued (hairston), and luke walton would still be getting 30 mins a game (aka finleybonner).

if Pj was in charge of this team, we at least push the series against dallas last year, and this year we are solidly 2-3 in the west.

[cd98]

Phil Jackson is a way better coach than Pop. Not even close. With 10 championships and time to get more, there is no coach even close to accomplishing what Phil has done.

Now Pop has more class than Jackson. But Jackson is better top to bottom. He gives his players confidence and gets the most out of the average guys on the roster when garnering the respect of the superstars he coaches.

I like Pop the person better, but I'd take Phil as coach any day. This Spurs team would be much better and more confident with Jackson.