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You're ing about Manu not being able to outplay Sasha when you know he was injured. If that's not holding his injury against him, I don't know what it is.
If I misunderstood you, then I apologize. That was my entire point from the get go.
I see. You got that one from the Aldridge quote. Never mind then.
The one I saw was from Manu and his article, which I translated so I recall pretty well. I thought you got it from there.
Carry on!
You're ing about Manu not being able to outplay Sasha when you know he was injured. If that's not holding his injury against him, I don't know what it is.
If I misunderstood you, then I apologize. That was my entire point from the get go.
Yep, you misunderstood me.
Manu struggling against Lakers was of course because of his injury.
It isn't Manu's fault if he is injured.
I'm just saying that his injuries have really hurt Spurs and Manu appropriate reaction should be: "The NBA is a business. I've been injured a lot so it's logical that Spurs are careful with me and haven't offer me an extension."
That I agree with.
i dont agree with the duncan/diop : manu/vujacic comparison. duncan still contributed a lot that year, maybe better if he didnt have PF, but if we are looking for factors in 06 I would list pop, officiating, and the mavs being in a very good rhythm well before injuries.
but I think it is a valid point that injuries are part of the game and no one is immune to them. whenever tim, tony or manu get injured everyone here starts pointing fingers and acting like they are machines, "the team pays this much so you must perform this much". newsflash: machines break, even the expensive ones! and in a contact sport like basketball its obvious players get injured (some more than others) and might have to play through injury (some better than others, some more willing than others). IMO the big 3 had a good run of health, could have been better, but more importantly they played through a lot at a good level.
I remember a thread, I think at the beginning of 08 when tony injured his ankle vs minnie, people were debating how long it will take for him to be 100%. they dont have a status gauge! (and if they did, they'd need several!) 100% only exists in hindsight. and in an 82 game season, most players (the good ones anyway, the ones that are playing hard) probably spend all season with aches and pains.
all that said, the spurs will take manu's injury history into account and will probably low ball. just like manu will insist that his history has more than just injuries and will probably not take a smaller contract to "make up" for his injuries. nothing left but to wait and see. i too would rather manu not talk about it here on out, but then again he is asked about it every day.
Spurs went to play for their country? Manu walked.
exactly....
I agree with this, I wish Manu would just shut the up and let his play do the talking
"Contract negotiations for an extension have been put off until after the surgery," Rudoy said. "The Spurs want to see how he recovers from the surgery."
There was no offer for Manu to accept. Spurs walked during negotiations. I think they did the right thing too.
I think you are playing semantics. They wanted to extend Manu and gave him the choice. He chose to play for the NT. Which is his choice. I am fine with that, but the negotiations stopped because Manu walked away, not the Spurs. He made the choice for the Spurs.
If Manu had an offer he simply could have taken it before going anywhere. There was no offer, thus nothing for him to accept. I'm sure Manu didn't think at the time that he was going to get a fracture on the other leg and miss the entire next season. I mean, the surgery was expected at the time, but the stress fracture was not.
In a way, I think it worked well for the Spurs. Now they can finally see if he will remain healthy and at what level he can play, and make an offer accordingly. For Manu it works also because ultimately he's in the driver's seat. He can choose to accept whatever the Spurs want to offer him, if they offer him anything, or he can sit out and test free agency.
Manu will probably get some kind of offer from the Spurs at the end of the season if he doesn't get traded before that. The Spurs are playing this like smart businessmen. Why make an investment on someone who will produce low returns? Manu miscalculated Pop's and RC's loyalties just as Pop and RC miscalculated Manu's (playing for the NT). Had Manu never been injured he would either be signed to an extension or he would be holding all the cards. Now, however, the ball is in the Spurs court and they can choose to extend, trade, or let him walk. If Manu can get over the fact that he no longer is a 10.mil/year player and can get over being hurt, there is a good chance he'll comeback for two or three more years.
Your point is Manu has not been reliable for 3 years now with injuries and now declining play.
I'd much rather have a wounded Manu with a lot of Heart, than a Healthy RJ with NO HEART, Any day!
I want to ask something:
IF If the franchise waits until last times to say they will trade Manu in order to get a very good player...and Manu inmediately says on public that he retires as a basketball player...the Spurs wont get nothing?
But he overperformed for his contracts from 2003-07, so I think we can give him a wash... in fact, for what he has brought to SA, he's been massively underpaid.
I think it's a bit harsh to get down on him because injuries and aging have slowed him.
Personally, I hope he takes a 2-year, 6-7mil deal (like DRob's last contract, but a bit smaller) to stay in SA and finish his career with Tim. He's not the killer he used to be, but he's still a very useful player.
3 years 24 million with a partial guarentee for the 3rd year is what I would offer. It is a lot of money that would be worth it at what Manu brings right now. I also do not think he will get that much more from other teams. This number would not hurt the Spurs that much with the cap.
All that's ancient history. To think he should be paid in line with what he's getting now for what he's giving now is craziness. It's not getting down on him to say he doesn't deserve an extension based on recent history that would presumably be somewhere in the range of his current deal.
Tim Duncan has also been underpaid. Like some have said, his injuries and aging have increased because of the extra work he has undertaken in the off season almost every year he has been in a Spurs uniform. It was brought on by himself. It is honorable to play for your country but then you cannot be upset when the boss who pays your salary decides to let you go.
I want to ask something:
IF If the franchise waits until last times to say they will trade Manu in order to get a very good player...and Manu inmediately says on public that he retires as a basketball player...the Spurs wont get a damn thing?
Somebody pls, before I start a thread on this
Manu is not upset.
I didn't think that David Robinson was worth 11 mill. per year on his last contract but he got it, in part, because he was 'so identified with SA'.
Questions: Given all the histrionics about Manu choosing his national team over the Spurs' contract offer...does anyone remember when Pop was coach of the USA national team and Tim played for him? He didn't tell Duncan not to play for his national team, did he?
Did anyone tell David Robinson not to play for his national team when he was a Spur?
Does anyone remember David's last contract negotiations when he was in Hawaii at his vacation home and holding television interviews about how 'he always expected to finish his career as a Spur, but since the FO was not coming up with the money he wanted, he was 'not at all sure that he would end his career as a spur'?
Has anyone stopped to think that maybe Manu is doing nothing more or less than what David did? He is negotiating in the press. BFD.
Everybody who is accusing him of whining should get a grip. If he wasn't playing his heart every time he is on the court it would be one thing. BUT. THE. MAN. TRIES. EVERY SECOND. HE. IS ON. COURT. (Timvp wants to accentuate every word so can the rest of us.)
He can negotiate all he wants to, wherever he wants to. HE. HAS. EARNED. THE. RIGHT. TO.
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