How valuable is Pau Gasol?..

[HarlemHeat37]

Gasol IS soft when certain guys go at him..how does that have any effect on his defensive ability though?..his defensive ability is pretty obvious..

I don't understand why some of you guys are getting so mad anyways(the poster above me for example)..I was just stating the facts so we could have a civilized argument..I even said that Kobe is obviously the Lakers' best player..what's the problem?..

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You don't know . Fisher is JUST as selfish as Farmar is. Which is even worse because his old ass should know better by now.

When Fisher is on the court, LA has an offensive rating of 113.0 and 106 when he's off the court. When Farmar is on the court, LA has an offensive rating of 108.3, and when off the court LA has an offensive rating of 111.4. The stats don't lie, LA's offense runs better with Fisher at point over Farmar.

[ChrisRichards]

When Fisher is on the court, LA has an offensive rating of 113.0 and 106 when he's off the court. When Farmar is on the court, LA has an offensive rating of 108.3, and when off the court LA has an offensive rating of 111.4. The stats don't lie, LA's offense runs better with Fisher at point over Farmar.

the stats. Fisher sucks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

the stats. Fisher sucks.

Yet his team does better with him on the court than Farmar.

[ChrisRichards]

Yet his team does better with him on the court than Farmar.

Dude, you watch Laker games? Fisher does'nt make the extra pass nor run the triangle. He cant finish at all. Its sad that Fisher is revered so much based on his reputation. He's as bad as Kobe when it comes to shot selection.

Fisher also shoots a worst % than Farmar and has the lowest PER among starting point guards (9.3) to Farmars 13.8.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Dude, you watch Laker games? Fisher does'nt make the extra pass nor run the triangle. He cant finish at all. Its sad that Fisher is revered so much based on his reputation. He's as bad as Kobe when it comes to shot selection.

Fisher also shoots a worst % than Farmar and has the lowest PER among starting point guards (9.3) to Farmars 13.8.

All I know is the Lakers are a better team with Fisher on the court. Farmar is a better individual player, but you can't deny stats that clearly show Phil has a reason to play Fish over Farmar.

Also, Fisher's shot selection might suck, but he's last on LA at shots attempted per minute.

[jacobdrj]

The Lakers are 30-7 this season with Pau Gasol in the lineup..

They are 10-6 without him, losing by major blowouts to the majority of the playoff teams they faced, including Denver, San Antonio, Houston, Utah and Portland..

The Lakers are now 3-0 without Kobe Bryant, their best player, with wins over 3 playoff teams, including @ Utah, one of the toughest places to win in the NBA..

They lost to the 3 teams they beat without Kobe when Kobe was playing and Pau was out..

Now I'm not arguing that Kobe isn't their best player, he obviously is, but it is arguable that Pau Gasol is more valuable to the Lakers than Kobe Bryant?..

Well, he basically got the Lakers to the '08 Finals, and with better chemestry and better health, ensured that Kobe could be free to do his thing to help them win the '09 championship. Without Pau, the Lakers would not have won. Not to say there aren't any other players that could have helped the Lakers win, like, say: Duncan, KG, Dwight, or even Shaq (granted a bit of a stretch) but Pau was the one there, and he did it, so, yeah, he is pretty damn important, and the Lakers should thank their lucky stars they could pair him with Kobe. Kobe may be the emotional leader and top scorer, but it is Pau that made the team elite...

[mystargtr34]

All I know is the Lakers are a better team with Fisher on the court. Farmar is a better individual player, but you can't deny stats that clearly show Phil has a reason to play Fish over Farmar.

Also, Fisher's shot selection might suck, but he's last on LA at shots attempted per minute.

I would argue Fisher>Farmar aswell, just based on the fact Fisher has a brain and is less proned to up. But when looking at those stats, you have to remember that Fisher plays the majority/nearly all of his minutes with Kobe + Pau + Bynum/Odom. Farmar on the other hand, plays most of his minutes with the second unit... normally involving two or three of a combination between Brown/Vujacic/Walton/Powell.

I think that may be why there is such a disparity.

[RsxPiimp]

I would argue Fisher>Farmar aswell, just based on the fact Fisher has a brain and is less proned to up. But when looking at those stats, you have to remember that Fisher plays the majority/nearly all of his minutes with Kobe + Pau + Bynum/Odom. Farmar on the other hand, plays most of his minutes with the second unit... normally involving two or three of a combination between Brown/Vujacic/Walton/Powell.

I think that may be why there is such a disparity.

Bingo

[picc84]

When Fisher is on the court, LA has an offensive rating of 113.0 and 106 when he's off the court. When Farmar is on the court, LA has an offensive rating of 108.3, and when off the court LA has an offensive rating of 111.4. The stats don't lie, LA's offense runs better with Fisher at point over Farmar.

When Fisher is on the court, guess who else is? The mother ing STARTERS.

[picc84]

I would argue Fisher>Farmar aswell, just based on the fact Fisher has a brain and is less proned to up. But when looking at those stats, you have to remember that Fisher plays the majority/nearly all of his minutes with Kobe + Pau + Bynum/Odom. Farmar on the other hand, plays most of his minutes with the second unit... normally involving two or three of a combination between Brown/Vujacic/Walton/Powell.

I think that may be why there is such a disparity.

Fisher does not have a brain. He hasn't had a brain for 2 years. Both Farmar and Shannon Brown are better than Fisher is, and do more for the team than Fisher does, and its not even close.

[IronMexican]

All I know is the Lakers are a better team with Fisher on the court. Farmar is a better individual player, but you can't deny stats that clearly show Phil has a reason to play Fish over Farmar.

Also, Fisher's shot selection might suck, but he's last on LA at shots attempted per minute.

Fisher is on the court with the starters more. Might have something to do with it.

[j-money24]

you guys need to stop riding Gasols , which is true, we cant win a championship without him but we also wont win a championship without kobe... and to be fair, Odom has been more valuable for the Lakers 3 wins then Pau.. which he is the reason why the Lakers are playing so good without him.. Odom should be starting instead of plastic knees and the Lakers will then be UNSTOPPABLE..

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

When Fisher is on the court, LA has an offensive rating of 113.0 and 106 when he's off the court.

You don't watch enough Lakers game. Fisher plays most of his minutes with the starters. Farmar has to play a lot of his minutes with Sasha, DJ, Morrison, Powell and Luke.

When Farmar is on the court, LA has an offensive rating of 108.3, and when off the court LA has an offensive rating of 111.4. The stats don't lie, LA's offense runs better with Fisher at point over Farmar.

Yes stats, especially team stats do ing lie. Farmar is clearly the better offensive and defensive player. He also runs the offense better. Yes he shoots more than he should but that's what the Lakers want from him off the bench. They want him to push the tempo and he does a great job at it.

I never said Phil was a horrible coach (which you claimed earlier in this thread). But Phil Jackson is petty, stubborn and prefers vets over young guys. And he is currently starting and playing the inferior point guard. Farmar would be starting over Fish on any other team. Phil is loyal to Fish and clearly has personal issues with Farmar's at ude.

In Farmar's defense though; most young players would have an at ude if their coach constantly started an inferior player over them. This isn't the first time it's happened either. Phil started Kwame Brown over Bynum despite Andrew outplaying him most of the time.

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

I would argue Fisher>Farmar aswell, just based on the fact Fisher has a brain and is less proned to up.

Fisher's brain is overrated. I could point to thousands of examples of Fish pulling up for a contested jumper on a 4 v1 fastbreak. He's a liability on both ends of the court this year for the first 46 minutes of the game. He's clutch in the final couple minutes, but that's about it.

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

Doubtful

No. The mere notion that Pau is the Lakers MVP is completely and totally ridic.

My opinion nonetheless.

A wrong and stupid opinion.

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

All I know is the Lakers are a better team with Fisher on the court. Farmar is a better individual player, but you can't deny stats that clearly show Phil has a reason to play Fish over Farmar.

. Put Fisher on the court with the second unit and the Lakers bench would be the worst in the league. Fisher isn't even a point guard and the 2nd unit would fall apart without Jordan.

While Jordan should be starting based on talent, I'm glad he isn't based on the above logic.

Also, Fisher's shot selection might suck, but he's last on LA at shots attempted per minute.

Fisher's FG% is also the 4th worst on the team. And he's starting. Think about that.

[Unforgivable]

Damn, this Ode to Triple Ocho got is one pussy hurt semen guzzling cuckold.

[picc84]

This is the points per minute production of every lineup the Lakers have run this season that has played over 10 minutes together, from most productive to least productive.

1. J. Farmar S. Vujacic K. Bryant L. Odom A. Bynum 10:03 1.390
2. S. Brown K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom P. Gasol 16:32 .907
3. D. Fisher S. Brown K. Bryant L. Odom A. Bynum 30:30 .885
4. J. Farmar K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom P. Gasol 36:01 .721
5. J. Farmar S. Brown L. Walton L. Odom A. Bynum 23:58 .709
6. J. Farmar S. Vujacic K. Bryant L. Odom P. Gasol 23:16 .687
7. J. Farmar K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom D. Mbenga 11:50 .591
8. J. Farmar S. Brown K. Bryant P. Gasol A. Bynum 13:33 .589
9. S. Brown D. Fisher K. Bryant L. Odom P. Gasol 34:27 .580
10. J. Farmar S. Brown R. Artest L. Odom P. Gasol 42:04 .546
11. J. Farmar K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom A. Bynum 45:36 .526
12. J. Farmar S. Brown K. Bryant J. Powell A. Bynum 29:52 .502
13. J. Farmar S. Vujacic R. Artest L. Odom A. Bynum 10:25 .479
14. J. Farmar S. Brown K. Bryant L. Odom D. Mbenga 12:17 .407
15. J. Farmar S. Brown L. Odom R. Artest A. Bynum 37:48 .370
16. D. Fisher K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom D. Mbenga 29:53 .368
17. D. Fisher S. Vujacic K. Bryant L. Odom P. Gasol 14:36 .342
18. S. Brown K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom A. Bynum 22:35 .339
19. D. Fisher K. Bryant R. Artest P. Gasol A. Bynum 415:30 .269
20. J. Farmar S. Brown K. Bryant L. Odom P. Gasol 93:22 .224
21. D. Fisher K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom P. Gasol 156:55 .159
22. D. Fisher K. Bryant L. Odom P. Gasol A. Bynum 75:51 .131
23. D. Fisher S. Vujacic K. Bryant L. Odom A. Bynum 23:33 .127
24. D. Fisher K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom A. Bynum 352:32 .085

Out of the top 15 lineups in point production per minute, Fisher is in 2 of them. Of the bottom 10, he is in 7.

In direct comparison of lineups with Farmar/Fisher playing with groups of starters + Odom:

Players --> minutes together --> pts/minute

24. D. Fisher K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom P. Gasol 156:55 .159
7. J. Farmar K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom P. Gasol 36:01 .721

13. S. Brown D. Fisher K. Bryant L. Odom P. Gasol 34:27 .580
23. J. Farmar S. Brown K. Bryant L. Odom P. Gasol 93:22 .224

27. D. Fisher K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom A. Bynum 352:32 .085
14. J. Farmar K. Bryant R. Artest L. Odom A. Bynum 45:36 .526

Farmar hasn't just played better with the starters this year, but a lot better. He plays better with the starters. He plays better with Odom. He plays better with Odom and the starters together. He plays better with the bench.

And the reason for that is simple. He's 1000x better basketball player than Fisher is. He and Shannon Brown. The fact is, whenever Fisher is on the floor, i'm just praying we survive until the bench guards come in. If you gave me all of his veteran "leadership" and "experience" and turned it into money, I wouldn't be able to pay a hooker to smell her fart. The only thing he's good for is shooting at the end of the game. Every Derek Fisher boxscore should read like this:

Fisher: Pts - 3, Minutes - 1

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

you guys need to stop riding Gasols , which is true, we cant win a championship without him but we also wont win a championship without kobe... and to be fair, Odom has been more valuable for the Lakers 3 wins then Pau.. which he is the reason why the Lakers are playing so good without him.. Odom should be starting instead of plastic knees and the Lakers will then be UNSTOPPABLE..

Gasol is a great player but he's no Lakers MVP.

Odom is playing out of his mind right now, which he seems to do every year. The problem with Odom is he only plays like that 1/4 of the season. He has the all the tools to become one of the greatest players ever -- instead he chose to smoke pounds of weed.

[DPG21920]

All I know is, when you watch this Laker team without Kobe you can see clearly how much better his supporting cast is than anyone else's. That is not a knock, but the truth. Kudos for building such an amazing team.

This certainly puts to bed the Cavs supporting cast vs LA's supporting cast argument. If the Cavs lost Lebron + a key big, they would be losing by 12-15 points a game. Instead, you get LA cruising by teams that are in the playoffs out West.

[Killakobe81]

Gasol is a great player but he's no Lakers MVP.

Odom is playing out of his mind right now, which he seems to do every year. The problem with Odom is he only plays like that 1/4 of the season. He has the all the tools to become one of the greatest players ever -- instead he chose to smoke pounds of weed.

Pau is more valuable definitely but Lamar is the key to another le you can count on the other two guys ... 20 and 10 and 25 5 5 (Pau and Kobe)

[picc84]

All I know is, when you watch this Laker team without Kobe you can see clearly how much better his supporting cast is than anyone else's. That is not a knock, but the truth. Kudos for building such an amazing team.

Denver without Melo was smoking playoff teams. New Orleans without CP3 is beating playoff teams. The Jazz lost Deron Williams and beat the Lebrons anyway. Apparently the Lakers outside of Kobe dont hold a patent on not folding like a deck of cards.

This certainly puts to bed the Cavs supporting cast vs LA's supporting cast argument. If the Cavs lost Lebron + a key big, they would be losing by 12-15 points a game. Instead, you get LA cruising by teams that are in the playoffs out West.

How do you know that? How many times have you seen it to make the call?

I remember the Cavs last season played a game without Lebron, Mo Williams, Delonte West, or Ilgauskus, and the 76ers who were fighting for playoff positioning at the time needed overtime to beat them by 2 points. And that was vs the Cavs bench scrubs. This isnt the Cavs from 2007, they have a very good team of players who function as a team.

[DPG21920]

Please and LMFAO at the "how do you know that" card being pulled. Use your little Laker brain.

I am sure those teams you mentioned were missing their best player (arguably the best in the league) + another legit, talented 7 footer and did this:

Beat Utah in Utah: +15

Beat San Antonio: +12

Beat Portland in Portland (where they were 0-9 their last 9 times): +17

No one said the Cavs have a team. But some are arguing that they are more talented than the Lakers. Which is stupid.

[picc84]

I didnt say they were more talented the Lakers cast. I was responding to this:

If the Cavs lost Lebron + a key big, they would be losing by 12-15 points a game.

Which is pure bull and unsupported by anything aside from your little spurs imagination.