Pop would be giving the cold turkey treatment to Tyrus before that, if the Spurs even make it to the 2nd round.
hahaha... you're probably right. Pop has little patience for defensive lapses.
You'd think though that between Duncan and Dice giving him constant pointers in game and out, he'd be getting enough of a crash course to figure things out by then though.
Yep, no different then the Gooden treatment is what I'm worried about this trade.
This is why I am on the ledge as to giving up this season. It has nothing to do with trades or the current roster. Pops rotations and love of small ball is what makes me feel we have very little chance with or without a trade.
Hmm, it's not that I'm saying that Pop has anything to do with the downfall... ok actualy I am.
You'd also think that he would have figured out enough things over four years for his team to want to retain his services.
Thomas would have to produce, plain and simple. Blair's production kept him in the rotation despite early season defensive lapses and foul troubles. Blair has demonstrated great ap ude and a willingness to accept coaching and he has noticeably improved in both areas as the year has progressed. Thomas will make some bonehead plays, but he'll have to play to his strengths, go get rebounds and block shots, and show the same willingness to follow coaching priorities that Blair has.
When you look at the worst case scenario with Thomas, you have to accept that he may never get it. Chicago passed on LaMarcus Aldridge to take this kid, paid him nearly 15M over four years, and is ready to let him go for pennies on the dollar. So in the worst case a change of scenery makes no difference and he follows Stromile Swift's career path out of the league. In the best case scenario, the change in scenery makes all the difference in the world and he blossoms like Jermaine O'Neal did in Indiana.
Pop had better "get over himself". Gone are the days where he could simply plug in veterans into the mix, around his Big Three, and have it work like a charm. With the Spurs failing to field a team that can effectively challenge the Fakers this year and for the forseeable future, combined with their aging core, and with Manu's eminent departure this summer, the Spurs will be staring at an eventual rebuild. Probably sooner than most would like to believe.
With the exception of the Mavs, all other Western Conference contenders have younger, more athletic talent than the Spurs. They're not going away. All of this means the Spurs will have step up the process of getting younger, quicker and more athletic. This means importing more younger players into the mix. Tyrus Thomas would be part of such a movement.
Consequently, Pop is going to have to earn his money. He's going to actually start having to coach and teach players - which means exhibiting some degree of patience and living with some early mistakes. Jerry Sloan , perhaps even more of a stickler for process and discipline as Pop, went through the exact same thing for a couple of seasons, following the end of the Stockton/Malone era. He had to stomach the inconsistencies and mistakes of the younger players. Now the Jazz are back as perennial contenders.
I've said it before, Pop needs to prepare to do the same thing. If he doesn't have the "stomach for the fight" - then he should exit stage left.
Good analogy, but as you said Sloan didn't change until after Stockton and Malone had retired. Pop still sees Tim, Tony, and Manu out there. And to be fair, he already has a rookie and 2nd year player among the top 6 or 7 players in the rotation. Both young men deserve credit for their hard work, but both have clearly improved from the coaching they have received since joining the Spurs.
Have they improved due to the coaching or due to getting minutes?
I think the whole "Thomas is bonehead so CHI is desperate to get rid of him" theory is waaaaaay overblown. I recall watching the guy in last year's playoffs
and he was a MAJOR defensive factor for them and even gave them some decent offense (hit a game winning shot even). I'll take a proven playoff performing "bonehead" anyday.
Fact of the matter is if Taj Gibson had not blossomed into one of the league's best young prospects there is no talk of trading Thomas. As much as Del Negro doesn't care for Tyrus Thomas, without Taj Gibson around he is their starting PF and there is no talk of trades.
And another fact people keep forgetting is the bulls are looking to shed salary to get into the Dwayne Wade / Bosh / Lebron sweepstakes. They have a young nucleus there that could be a very attractive place for a superstar to go this summer. Why pay Thomas 5m when you can shed 4m in salary and pay Gibson 1m for a very similar player? That 4m could be the difference in getting Dwayne Wade or not.
LOL I was just going to reply to the same thread. Pop's comment of Blair sticks out in my mind, the one about him not teaching Blair a thing out on the court and just letting Blair do his thing.
1. Talent
2. Ap ude
3. Work ethic
4. Willingness to accept coaching
5. Good coaches
Blair and Hill have both applied all of those to earn their minutes.
Are you really convinced that a significant part of their development is not the result of applying lessons learned from the team's coaches?
He was the 4th pick in the 2006 draft. If he had developed as expected when they drafted him, he would have received the sort of extension that players like Roy, Aldridge, and Rondo received this summer. No matter how you slice it, Thomas has been a massive disappointment to Chicago.
That was the first part of the quote. Have you forgotten the second part or Blair's own comments about how much benefit he has received from the coaching staff.LOL I was just going to reply to the same thread. Pop's comment of Blair sticks out in my mind, the one about him not teaching Blair a thing out on the court and just letting Blair do his thing.
/shrug
I don't see how averages of 10pts / 6reb / 3blks / 1stl / 1ast and great defense in 28 minutes a game in last year's playoffs can be considered a "massive dissappointment".
If they valued his contribution, they would have extended him over the summer.
Anyway, I'm all for acquiring Thomas. It's a low risk/high reward move. I'm just being realistic. Tyrus Thomas is not the first ultra-athletic player with limited prior basketball experience who were lottery picks that failed to fulfill their potential with the team that drafted him. Most similar players that preceded him followed the Stromile Swift example and never were able to make it in the NBA. Of course, there is the case of Jermaine O'Neal, who floundered in Portland and then became an All-Star in Indy.
At 23 he's definitely worth the risk. The downside associated with the acquisition is small, but there are obvious and legitimate reasons to temper expectations. Aside from Chicago's willingness to let him go, his availability has hardly provoked a bidding war among teams anxious to obtain him. That's just the reality of the situation.
Another thing about Thomas, and this is certainly not meant to be a "hall pass" for him. Some players develop better in a different environment. Look at the chaos the Bulls organizaion has been in since Thomas was drafted. I believe Skiles was the coach at the time he was drafted. He was fired Christmas of '08. Del Negro comes in and I'm just not sure the coaching experience or respect level is there. It certainly wouldn't be the same as in San Antonio.
Organizational stability, good coaching and patience are usually a key components in the development of many young players. Thomas would get that in San Antonio. The pressure would then be on him to accept responsibility for his own growth.
What follows is not directed at you, but your words provoked the thought.
The environment you describe that could properly nurture someone like Thomas and allow him to realize his full potential has been used here through the years as part of campaigns to acquire troubled, yet talented, players like Stephen Jackson and J.R. Smith. Yet many of the very same posters will then turn around and skewer Pop for his supposed inability to reach or utilize young players. I suppose I don't have a problem with people viewing San Antonio as a place that can turn a problem child into a model citizen or others that hold the view that Pop won't give young players a chance. I am amazed that so many seem to hold both views.
Honestly, I'd be much more confident that the veteran bigs on the teams (Duncan/Dice/Ratliff) and their influence would be able to turn a "troubled" player around before I'd have faith in Pop.
If anything, Pop's lack of patience, random tirades and lineup changes would have a negative effect more than anything.
That was the point I was making earlier. Pop is used to and prefers veteran players, who are not as flawed as younger players.
Going forward into the next year or three, he's got to exhibit more of a patient teacher role, than he probably ever has before.
Thanks for making my point.
Michael (Chicago)
Chad - what is best case scenario for the Bulls at the moment? I have a sinking feeling Pax and management are going to stand pat another year without making a move they've talked about for years.
Chad Ford (1:30 PM)
They were working with LA in an effort to recruit a third team to take on Sasha Vujacic's contract in a Kirk Hinrich deal. Portland was a possibility, but obviously they are out now. Lakers like Hinrich, but won't trade just expiring contracts for him. Not sure who else is really in the mix for Hinrich. The Bucks could be another trade partner for the Bulls. There is some interest in a deal that would send the Bucks expiring contracts for Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30864
I agree, and based on past evidence I don't think Pop is up for that job. The general trend has been going in the opposite direction though there have been a few occasional exceptions. But given how bad our roster is - there would have to be a few exceptions now and then. I still don't think teaching young players or developing young players is a focus for Pop.
Which is why the Thomas trade talk seems like a head scratcher. Pop has no patience for Ian, who is actually rather humble and knows the system. I don't see why Pop would be able to have a sustained different approach toward Thomas.
Of course, we could all be misreading this situation as far as what Thomas is in question. Pop probably wants to go under the radar and get Kurt Thomas because he was a monster in the 99 Finals.
Thomas is 6'10...undersized...again....
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