You top 5 biggest wastes of talent

[gaKNOW!blee]

Amare has never had the veteran influence Melo had or the coaching influence Dirk had. AJ set up a system where Dirk played a specific role on D, he made sure that either Damp or Diop was on the floor to defend the low post so Dirk knew his job on D was pick and roll/help D. Basically, AJ found a way to maximize Dirk's physical strengths on D and hide his physical weaknesses. Having Amare guard bigger, stronger players and fight with them for rebounds isn't maximizing his strengths, in fact it's exposing them.

When Iverson was the PG on Denver, Melo played horrible D. Billups showed up and Melo's D got a lot better. You can't expect Amare to play D when the veterans on the team (Nash and Hill), are two of the worst defenders in basketball. They day Amare gets a veteran defensive leader like Billups at PG and still sucks at D is the day you can criticize him for not improving the way Melo has.

maybe im wrong, but I thought you hated Stoudemire?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

maybe im wrong, but I thought you hated Stoudemire?

I hated Amare till everyone else started hating him and started blaming him every single time the Suns lost. In essence, he's become the new Shaq. Everytime a PG bukakes all over Nash, it's somehow Amare's fault. Everytime the Suns lose by 20, it's because Amare grabbed 9 rebounds instead of 12. Phoenix fans have a tendency to blame one person for everything. The bad defense this year is a collective team problem, trading Amare won't cause one iota of improvement for their D.

[gaKNOW!blee]

yeah...but you called him emire and wanted him traded more than anyone....you cant just take that back lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

yeah...but you called him emire and wanted him traded more than anyone....you cant just take that back lol

changes, people are too stupid to realize it but Amare has gotten better on both ends of the court. He's not the epically horrible defender people like Findog say he is, he's a below average defender that's exposed more than your usual below average defender because of the team he's on. Amare's crappy post defense is naturally more noticeable when he has no center to guard players like Bynum. His pick and roll and help defense is gonna look worse when Steve Nash on the other end of it never fighting through screens and constantly allowing players to drive by him. His rebounding is gonna look weaker than it is when Grant hill never boxes out and the guy he's guarding gets to freely slash in there and grab the rebound.

Take this game for example:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...911190NOH.html

Now, who's fault is it the Hornets w/o Paul scored 110 points and had 25 offensive rebounds? Is it Amare's fault merely because he only grabbed 5 rebounds, or is it Grant Hill's fault for letting Peja Stojakovic go ape on the boards and Channing Frye's fault for letting Okafor grab 7 offensive boards?

[ambchang]

Thanks for proving MY point ambchang. The only evidence you have here is a ESPN link, which is the media and had a monopoly on stuff like this back then. At least draftexpress is more prevalent now. All that ESPN Darko hype was led by Chad Ford and no one takes him seriously anymore, for good reason.

Chad Ford most obviously is a hack, talking non-stop about Macjej Lampe. But SI also rated the Detroit pick highly.

Except if you actually WATCHED WADE PLAY you would have realized he WAS a gamechanger. He DOMINATED in the NCAA tournament before the draft. No one was 'shocked' he went 5 - y V was slobbing over his nuts. What the are you talking about? Wade was balling in his final season at marquette.

Issues about his size and outside shooting was raised. People were praying Bosh would drop to 5, and when Bosh was gone, Heat fans were looking for Kaman.



People openly questioned why Miami would pick a SG when they already have Eddie Jones. Most people did not rate Wade as a player who had the potential to be an MVP caliber player. He was projected to go all over the place between 4th to the bottom of the 1st round. People were talking about multiple all-stars as his celing.

Yes I heard that before, from the mespnedia. Have you seen Darko play? Did you ever see him play before he was drafted? What talent was wasted? He was never, ever that great of a player and less athletic than Tyler Hansbourough.

No I have not seen him play, but I was not a professional scout. I don't travel to Europe to scout bench players. But the fact is, SI had the Detroit Pistons rated highly for selecting Darko, knowing full well Melo was still available.

Basketball purist like Chad Ford and Pistons FO? Notice how Melo was a 'sure thing'. Because he was. Media hype vs sure thing, hmm.

Did you read what I wrote? I said basketball purist did not like the Darko pick because they felt Detroit should go for the sure thing instead of a talented project like Darko.

Yes that was the justification for drafting the great white euro media hyped big man. And it blew up in their face. Just like it blew up in Portland's face back in 84.

Tyler Hansborough is more of an athlete than Darko based on his measurements. Everybody saw him play in college 4 years and realized he would be a middling NBA player. If Darko had played college ball, there is not a chance in he would have went in the top 5.

e - meant Marquette not Pitt.

I wouldn't know where Darko would be drafted if he played college ball, but he WAS rated highly back then.

Another article back in 2003, from nbadraft.net
http://www.nbadraft.net/node/4478

This years draft has two potential "uberfreaks". First and foremost is Darko Milicic. The Detroit Pistons new franchise talent and a player who could end up as one of the top 3-5 players in the league some day. His abilities are truly remarkable. Not to mention he comes from a growing basketball hotbed, the former Yugoslavian republic known as Serbia-Montenegro.

Ask any European scout about Yugos and they will tell you, they are all similarly hungry. "They are hungrier than the average player. They're mean. All of them!" So Darko is a player with immense talent and potential, but he also seems to have the perfect predisposition for success in the NBA. Milicic is not going to dominate instantly because of his age, but his talents will probably allow him to be compe ive in a short period of time.

[crc21209]

How about Top 5 guys who shouldnt even be in the NBA:

#1. Luke Walton...enough said...

[duhoh]

I think Mo Williams. Do you guys agree?

How about Top 5 guys who shouldnt even be in the NBA:

#1. Luke Walton...enough said...

hear hear!

mine would have to be in no particular order:

t-mac (one of my favorite players, but too injured)
varejao (i don't think the cavs change much if they went without sideshow bob)
LAL's bench (aside from the good players)
j.r. smith (all-star talent with pre-school maturity)
and no list with this topic is complete without greg oden

[JamStone]

Actually it does. Because 'every gm/scout' did not watch Darko play much basketball. Most fans never heard of him or even seen him. His hype was greater than Yi, by far.

Your turn. Proof they didn't?

Prove it then. Because you can't. I can also guarantee you most GMs/scout did not see much of Darko based on location. Most had no chance of drafting him so they didn't even bother to scout him or had very limited video of the guy. To say every gm/scout had Darko above Wade and Bosh is pure horse and is coming from a butthurt Piston fan.

You could go through draft reports by scouts and experts. They all pegged Darko as a consensus top 3 prospect in the draft, most of them top 2, and some even (unbelievably) the top prospect in the draft.

Now, I'll do this much. Since you're challenging my contention that Darko was regarded as a top 3 prospect in the 2003 NBA draft by all NBA GMs and scouts, all you have to do is give me proof of one scout or NBA GM at the time that said he wasn't. You prove that, and I'll prove what you're asking.

It's all rhetoric. I remember the 2003 NBA Draft. It wasn't just espn. It was every mock draft I looked at, it was sports illustrated, it was every NBA analyst. There were definitely some that debated over Carmelo v. Darko. But, none that debated that Darko wasn't at least in the mix among the top 3 draft prospects. So, first do what you ask of me and show me proof of NBA GMs and/or scouts saying Darko wasn't a top 3 prospect, and I'll give you proof that they all regarded him that way OR I'll admit I was wrong.

That's just your opinion actually. And I believe that number would have been much, much higher than 50%. The Pistons were thinking long term (or replacing Ben) with Darko and were high on prince so I sort of get where the pick was coming from - but that doesn't make it any less stupid. Same with Bowie. Always grab the talent before need that high in the draft.

It's my opinion based on what I remember at the time. It's your opinion now that it's wrong. And?

Yes it was. He was hyped by ESPN (see the MEDIA) and Chad Ford to stupid levels. This, despite limited ability to see the man the play. 99% of NBA fans didn't even know who the guy was until Chad Ford started screaming that he was the next Sabonis.

Even then, Darko's athletcism and skill level was never that great at all. If he played in college where everybody in America could have watched him he would not have been drafted 2nd overall. Media product.

By 2003, most if not all NBA teams had international scouts. And, with the history of NBA players, Serbian players were among those that were actually highly scouted. I don't have any way of showing you how many NBA scouts and which among them actually saw Darko play. I can tell you that before the draft, Darko was in New York and gave private work outs to NBA scouts and GMs, so they could have seen him personally before the draft even if they didn't watch him play abroad.

As for his athleticism and skill, Darko actually had his measurables taken when he was in New York, just like they did for American draft prospects at their NBA combines/workouts. Darko tested out as a very gifted athlete for his size and build. He had better "agility" then both Chris Bosh and Carmelo Anthony at a much heavier weight. He was a legitimate 6'11" guy at 17 years of age. He had a 7'5" wingspan. He had above average strength for a 17 year old (13 reps on the bench press). His straight away speed wasn't great, but pretty good considering his size and weight. It was about the same as Chris Bosh's sprint speed when Bosh weight about 30 lbs. lighter.

So, no, it wasn't just ESPN media hype. He had outstanding size and great measurables considering his size.

Now, it was still absolutely the wrong pick by Detroit. There wasn't enough in-game experience to really evaluate him. But that was the way the draft was going. That's pretty much the same thing with high school guys like Tyson Chandler and Kwame Brown. The great potential of athletic big men with great size outweighed the risk of not knowing if they could handle the NBA.

You can say it was a stupid pick. Sure, it's easy to say that now. But, the way the draft had gone year after year to more of a guessing game and more about potential than actual production, that's how NBA GMs were evaluating prospects by then. GMs wanted to gamble on the Pau Gasol instead of settling the Shane Battier, the Dirk Nowitzki instead of Raef Lafrentz.

Sure Darko was a bad pick. But at the time, he was a consensus top 3 draft prospect. And, "at the time," he wasn't viewed or perceived as a poor draft selection.

It's easy to say he was now.

[monosylab1k]

What do you mean he's never developed post moves? I've seen him go into the post and seal a guy with a drop-step. He's not a good post player, but that's not for lack of trying.

I want you to say that with a straight face every time Dirk shoots a fadeaway over some guys he's 3-5 inches taller than.

[Baseline]

Ian Mahinmi.

[mavs>spurs2]

Mono >> Findog