Spurs interested in Bulls' Thomas?

[Obstructed_View]

Back in the olden days, I could never have fathomed a day in which Spurs fans complained about the team only having four championships.

Back in the olden days, I never could have fathomed fans shouting down those who point out a coach's poor decisions by pointing to the number of championships his teams have won. The "Spoiled Fan" argument, which focuses on past team success, has no place in a discussion of the mistakes of a team that has had trouble winning much of anything this year.

[Agloco]

I said 4 was par for the course. 5-6 with a back to back "repeat" le would have been the home run ball for me.

Can you honestly say you feel "good" about being par for the course?

The previous two "best power forwards of all time" had zero championship rings in 34 seasons. And you think par for Duncan's career is 5 or 6 championships in 12 seasons?

GTFO of here.

Given their success thus far, the troubles putting together a complete team, and the truth of the NBA business including free agency, do you think Cavs fans would be happy with one championship in LeBron's career there?


I'm going with yes.

Lord..this gets more hilarious by the minute.

Do I feel good about four championships? Uh, yes, very much so.

Duncan has more championships than Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki, Elvin Hayes and Bob Pet combined ... and those are very likely the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh best power forwards of all-time.

Perspective, get some.

Four championships in an exceptional achievement. To say its not is simply ridiculous. To say that spending more money during the Duncan era would have garnered more championships is equally stupid. Spending money does not equate to winning. Who is to say acquiring a big name player wouldn't have hindered our chances (similar to Jefferson right now) to win.

No doubt I will always want to have more les, but having four within Duncans career is not "par for the course". There are tons of phenomenal players with less or NO championships.

Just par for TJastal's course that is.......

Buffoonery at it's best.

[Mel_13]

A little perspective here.

We can all wonder and we can all speculate, but all of us should be most appreciative of the stability and success the Spurs organization has had.

I've been a fan since Day 1 inception and I can tell you the Spurs have not always been this model of consistency. Of course this was back in the dark days. I never thought I'd ever see even one le in my lifetime.

Even if there are indeed some lean times are ahead, let's take a pause for the cause and give credit to the organization for 20-year run of perennial success that has produced 4 championships.

Great post. Well said.

[TJastal]

Do I feel good about four championships? Uh, yes, very much so.

Duncan has more championships than Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki, Elvin Hayes and Bob Pet combined ... and those are very likely the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh best power forwards of all-time.

Perspective, get some.

Duncan is on another level from those players as far as leaders, IMO. Those are top 50 players and in many ways equal to be Duncan in talent to be sure, but it takes a true leader to become a top 10 player that Duncan is.

Even the normally quiet Duncan228 expressed a bit of dissappointment that this organization might have left a championship on the table.

[Agloco]

Don't give the man sympathy.

He had an opportunity to take on contracts from 2003-2009, but he chose the cheap route.

Yes I know Spurs still managed to win 3 les during the 5 years (2003-2007), but had Holt took on contracts then instead of now, Spurs would have probably three peated or won 4-6 les during that time.

Instead he chose to wait til Tim and Manu were passed their prime to finally break the bank.

Deals like RJ non-withstanding right?

I'm not sure how anyone can say anything like this. It's a purely emotional response to the situation. Most always, it's much easier to tell others what they should have done with their time and/or money in hindsight.

[Agloco]

Duncan is on another level from those players as far as leaders, IMO. Those are top 50 players and in many ways equal to be Duncan in talent to be sure, but it takes a true leader to become a top 10 player that Duncan is.

Even the normally quiet Duncan228 expressed a bit of dissappointment that this organization might have left a championship on the table.

It's natural to feel that your organization could have done more. I think where you fail is when you call 4 championships "par for the course". That's just silly.

[TJastal]

Deals like RJ non-withstanding right?

I'm not sure how anyone can say anything like this. It's a purely emotional response to the situation. Most always, it's much easier to tell others what they should have done with their time and/or money in hindsight.

Well it's pretty clear that the spurs always sat on their hands after a championship run instead of raising the bar (good term btw).

And it's also pretty clear that is the reason they never managed even one repeat le.

[TJastal]

It's natural to feel that your organization could have done more. I think where you fail is when you call 4 championships "par for the course". That's just silly.

25 years from now they will be talking about the great Tim Duncan like we now talk about Wilt, Russell, and Kareem.

There's your perspective.

[Obstructed_View]

Glad this thread has gotten derailed into a discussion of the past instead of talking about what they need to do this season. Maybe we can finally win that 06 le.

[TJastal]

Glad this thread has gotten derailed into a discussion of the past instead of talking about what they need to do this season. Maybe we can finally win that 06 le.

[Agloco]

Well it's pretty clear that the spurs always sat on their hands after a championship run instead of raising the bar (good term btw).

And it's also pretty clear that is the reason they never managed even one repeat le.

And that matters because?

Ever since the Lakers repeated in 87-88, everyone's gotten on this bandwagon of thinking that it's the norm, that your team is in some way a failure for not having done it in consecutive years.

It's bull . Just ask Karl Malone or Charles Barkley, or anyone else who hasn't won a single ring, let alone 4.

[TJastal]

And that matters because?

Ever since the Lakers repeated in 87-88, everyone's gotten on this bandwagon of thinking that it's the norm, that your team is in some way a failure for not having done it in consecutive years.

It's bull . Just ask Karl Malone or Charles Barkley, or anyone else who hasn't won a single ring, let alone 4.

Don't get your panties in a wad just because it's true.

[Agloco]

25 years from now they will be talking about the great Tim Duncan like we now talk about Wilt, Russell, and Kareem.

There's your perspective.

Even though his organization didn't go balls to the wall to get him 7 rings instead of 4? Surely you jest.

[Agloco]

Glad this thread has gotten derailed into a discussion of the past instead of talking about what they need to do this season. Maybe we can finally win that 06 le.

They won't do anything this season, trade or otherwise. Might as well shoot the right?

J/K....I'm back on topic as of now.

[timvp]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

[AFBlue]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

It's possible, but I think if the Spurs wanted to keep both Manu and Salmons, they have enough flexibility with large expiring contracts (RJ and Dice) to create the necessary space via trade.

I also don't see how Salmons' contract is an issue, given that he essentially replaces Mason & Fin...only he's a more complete all-around player. If Holt has already committed to paying lux tax, I think it's a no-brainer.

Caveat: It isn't my money.

[AFBlue]

The other benefit of having Salmons is in the situation where both Mason and Fin get traded before the deadline. Are we really going to rely on Bogans and Hairston to back up Hill and Manu?

Salmons allows the Spurs to still compete this year and gives them some flexibility in case Manu leaves willingly in the off-season.

[lurker23]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

I think if the Spurs win the Thomas sweepstakes, they'll probably have to take on Salmons. Some of the other offers I've heard concerning picks and talent are better than what I'd want the Spurs to offer, unless the Bulls are really enamored with Mason/Bonner.

It is a fairly sticky scenario money-wise, though. Excluding Ginobili, I can't imagine the Spurs would have used Bird Rights on existing players to resign anyone for more than a total of $2-4 million. Thomas/Salmons would cost $6-12 million next year.

[lmbebo]

I would prefer Salmons just because he gives a solid SG/SF. Pargo would be great off of the bench too though. Not sure if he's playing like he did that one year in New Orleans..

I guess we still wait to see what Houston does with T-mac?

[AFBlue]

I think if the Spurs win the Thomas sweepstakes, they'll probably have to take on Salmons. Some of the other offers I've heard concerning picks and talent are better than what I'd want the Spurs to offer, unless the Bulls are really enamored with Mason/Bonner.

It is a fairly sticky scenario money-wise, though. Excluding Ginobili, I can't imagine the Spurs would have used Bird Rights on existing players to resign anyone for more than a total of $2-4 million. Thomas/Salmons would cost $6-12 million next year.

I think it's pretty clear Mason isn't coming back and I'm almost postive Finley would retire...but don't you have to replace them with one or two players?

And if you're replacing them, you're probably not going to use the MLE, since you're targeting Splitter for most of it.

That means the Spurs scour the bottom of the pool to find veteran LLE or min types to backfill that production. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it probably doesn't put them closer to a championship.

I know Salmons is a risk, but he's definitely a higher calibur of player than what you're going to get if you go the other direction.

[mudyez]

I dont like thomas and I cant see a szenario, where we get back in serieous le contention...that said, I like the idea of getting thomas in hope he will be rejuvinated, forming a nice 3-some with Hill and Blair once we are done with Timmy and co.

will it bring us a 5th ship? NO
will it be worth watching, while getting Timmy some playff runs to round out his legacy? YES

[lurker23]

I think it's pretty clear Mason isn't coming back and I'm almost postive Finley would retire...but don't you have to replace them with one or two players?

And if you're replacing them, you're probably not going to use the MLE, since you're targeting Splitter for most of it.

That means the Spurs scour the bottom of the pool to find veteran LLE or min types to backfill that production. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it probably doesn't put them closer to a championship.

I know Salmons is a risk, but he's definitely a higher calibur of player than what you're going to get if you go the other direction.

I agree, there's basically zero doubt that talent-wise Thomas/Salmons is better than anything the Spurs could get involving resigning Bonner plus minimum/LLE talent. However, it's the financials that many of us are worried about. I'll put together a brief financial summary of this trade here in a second.

[EricB]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

Salmons as imo it improves the defense on the perimiter..

[MaNu4Tres]

If Rockets go to the Knicks to deal McGrady, Spurs might be able to get Chicago to give up their 1st round pick in compensation for Spurs taking on Salmons' salary even if Thomas is included in the deal. That's if Spurs play their cards right and tell them their priority is to use that money to resign Manu. And make in known they don't have an interest in Salmons ( even if they really do).

That is if Chicago is that desperate to clear roughly 6 million off the books for the most anticipated summer since 2000.

24 hours and 29 minutes and counting.....

[TJastal]

If Rockets go to the Knicks to deal McGrady, Spurs might be able to get Chicago to give up their 1st round pick in compensation for Spurs taking on Salmons' salary even if Thomas is included in the deal. That's if Spurs play their cards right and tell them their priority is to use that money to resign Manu. And make in known they don't have an interest in Salmons ( even if they really do).

That is if Chicago is that desperate to clear roughly 6 million off the books for the most anticipated summer since 2000.

24 hours and 29 minutes and counting.....

Weren't you the guy that totally nailed the RJ trade before it even happened?