I am SO tired of the Bonner hating...

[chazley]

I honestly think that people don't understand how good Bonner is on this Spurs team. I know I'm in the 5% minority that likes Bonner and thinks he is a KEY chip to us winning a ring, and the numbers do not lie. When he starts, he is our best 3-point shooter, and most consistent 4-man. You know exactly what you're getting with Matt: Solid defense in the post and poor defense against quick 4s, exceptional 3-point shooting (not as of late but it will come around). He also is a great pick-setter (he needs to work on his midrange game so he can pick and pop, cause he definitely can't roll) which is VERY underrated. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The 4/5 spot is NOT what is wrong with this Spurs team. It's 2 things: Our piss-poor perimeter D, and total lack of chemistry.

You can go there and check it out for yourself, but according to 82games.com, Bonner has been out 3rd best player this season, behind Manu and Tim. Not only that, but for his adjusted +/- per 48 minutes, he has been 4 points better THAN ANY OTHER SPUR!!!

I know everyone has banded together and hates Bonner, but he has done very good for us. I also know that everyone thinks Pop is a dumbass. It's actually quite the opposite, the fans are the dumbasses because he has been a genius with his lineups. He knows what is most effective for us, and personally the only thing I would change would be to give Bogans no more than 10 minutes a game in a specialty role and let Parker/Hill/RJ start.

With Bonner and McDyess, we have two above average PF who can both start depending on the opponent and they have both been very underrated this season. The funny thing is, I think our team will be the second best team in the playoffs if RJ can give us just a little bit more and we stay healthy. I honestly think we would win 4 games against any East playoff team, but we match up so terribly against the Lakers (Pau/Kobe specifically), I don't see us having a chance whenever we meet them, be it in the 2nd round or WCF.

Go ahead and flame me boys.

[SenorSpur]

If I had never watched a Spurs regular season game for the past two seasons, and only tuned in for the playoffs (vs Fakers in '08; vs Mav in '09), I would've seen all I need to see regarding Bonner. In him, I saw a player who has virtually only one skill - shooting. A player who came up small, despite having numerous open looks on the perimeter. A player who contributed virtually nothing for a team fighting for its playoff life.

Bonner is a regular season shooter - not a playoff performer. The trouble is that since his unfortunate injury, he's not even doing that well now.
That said, I don't give a about what Bonner does during the regular season. I don't want him in my starting lineup.

If Pop wants to see him start, perhaps he should've traded him to Golden State.

[ElNono]

We don't hate Bonner... we hate his coach that puts him in a position to fail.

You forgot to point out that Matt also writes great sandwich reviews...

[jermaine]

I honestly think that people don't understand how good Bonner is on this Spurs team. I know I'm in the 5% minority that likes Bonner and thinks he is a KEY chip to us winning a ring, but the numbers do not lie. When he starts, he is our best 3-point shooter, and most consistent 4-man. You know exactly what you're getting with Matt: Solid defense in the post and poor defense against quick 4s, exceptional 3-point shooting (not as of late but it will come around). He also is a great pick-setter which is VERY underrated. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The 4/5 spot is NOT what is wrong with this Spurs team. It's 2 things: Our piss-poor perimeter D, and total lack of chemistry.

Here is a very telling chart from 82games.com:

lick on the player's name for in-depth statistics.

Production On Court/Off Court Simple Player Min Own Opp Net On Off Net Rating Duncan 63% 29.8 18.2 +11.6 +7.1 +0.5 +6.6 +9.6 Ginobili 50% 22.1 12.3 +9.8 +7.5 +1.8 +5.6 +8.1 Bonner 24% 17.1 15.0 +2.0 +11.1 +2.6 +8.6 +4.6 Parker 56% 19.2 15.9 +3.3 +6.5 +2.3 +4.2 +3.6 Haislip 2% 17.4 10.9 +6.5 -5.5 +4.9 -10.3 -0.2 Mason 39% 13.4 14.3 -0.9 +3.5 +5.4 -1.9 -1.3 Blair 38% 19.9 20.0 -0.2 +2.8 +5.8 -3.0 -1.3 Hill 55% 15.4 15.7 -0.3 +3.1 +6.6 -3.6 -1.6 McDyess 41% 14.9 20.2 -5.3 +6.6 +3.3 +3.3 -1.9 Jefferson 64% 13.5 16.4 -2.9 +3.7 +6.4 -2.8 -2.8 Finley 15% 8.9 13.3 -4.4 +4.2 +4.7 -0.5 -2.9 Bogans 40% 9.6 13.2 -3.6 +1.7 +6.7 -5.0 -4.1 Hairston 3% 6.8 14.5 -7.6 -13.1 +5.2 -18.3 -11.9 Ratliff 7% 8.8 16.5 -7.7 -13.7 +6.1 -19.8 -12.6 Mahinmi 2% 19.2 39.0 -19.7 -11.5 +5.0 -16.4 -18.4


I know everyone has banded together and hates Bonner, but he has done very good for us.

People just want change so he's the odd man out! I love Bonner myself, just off the bench!

[ffadicted]

Matt Bonner is an NBA bench player... there are no if ands or buts about it

[SpursChampsIII]

I am SO tired of Bonner.

[chazley]

edited my first post, make sure to re-read it if you didnt already

[Cane]

Bonner only played 12 minutes last night, I've got no problem with small minutes even if it means he's a "starter". He also has the most corporate knowledge and seems to be the most consistent of our secondary bigs particularly when it comes to defense.

By extending an opposing big to the three it can potentially create a lot of good stuff for the Spurs and save Duncan from having to deal with help-defense from whoever is on Bonner.

I am not a fan of Bonner but he does seem to start out the gate better than McDyess and Blair.

The starting lineup should ultimately be dependent on matchups against the opposing team.

[Chomag]

He is what he is. The thing is Spurs try to use him more then what he is.

[ElNono]

TPark, you forgot to log out from your troll...

[Obstructed_View]

Few people have spent more time on this message board defending Matt Bonner than I have, so I hope this statement has some weight when it's coming from me:

Matt Bonner is not a starter. Matt Bonner is a role player who gets spot minutes to shoot threes and defend backup bigs. He's not a shot-blocker. He's not a shot-intimidator. When put in there against starting caliber NBA bigs he's a weakness to exploit. His scoring CANNOT in any universe make up for that. Bonner, even when his shot is on, is the fourth best big on this team, and that's only because Pop refuses to play Mahinmi and Ratliff. He's a good solid backup player being put in a position to fail by the coach.

I understood Matt's starting at the beginning of the season because the other bigs hadn't learned the defense yet. It's February 18. No excuse to have him in the starting lineup unless you want to go big and make him a small forward, which could hardly be more disastrous than the current starting lineups being trotted out by our genius coach.

[Dice]

I've watched every game and can't see where anyone could show me Bonner playing solid post defense. And he doesn't box out on rebounds; offensive or defensive. He's a soft 4 and would be great off anyone's bench. But he's not starter material.

[dastrey]

Bonner is a good bench player. It seems people like to hate on him for only being a great shooter and not much of a defender. The same can be said for Roger Mason, yet he is well liked around here.

[chazley]

+/- numbers do not lie. We are significantly better when he is playing.

[Obstructed_View]

I've watched every game and can't see where anyone could show me Bonner playing solid post defense. And he doesn't box out on rebounds; offensive or defensive. He's a soft 4 and would be great off anyone's bench. But he's not starter material.

Bonner plays excellent individual post defense - positionally. He keeps the guy in front of him and has a hand up when he shoots. That's about all you can expect of a backup. Bonner's better as an energy guy coming off the bench anyway, and always has been.

[Dice]

Bonner plays excellent individual post defense - positionally. He keeps the guy in front of him and has a hand up when he shoots. That's about all you can expect of a backup. Bonner's better as an energy guy coming off the bench anyway, and always has been.

I seem to recall him always shuffling his feet backwards with said opponent then drawing the foul while shooting over him. Bonner then turns to ref showing him arms extended straight up but then drops them to his sides, palms up mystified by the call.

[SenorSpur]

+/- numbers do not lie. We are significantly better when he is playing.

There are lies. Damn lies and statistics. Plus-minus numbers be damned. It's about productivity. For me, I know what I see on the court. Bonner is a woefully-flawed, one trick pony, who is a sever defenisve liability. He doesn't defend, rebound or block shots well and when played extensive minutes against NBA starters, becomes badly exposed. He has one trick and one trick only - shooting. When not doing that well, he doesn't belong on the floor at all.

The mere fact that Pop has decided to force fit him back into the starting lineup is another example of Pop prefering the conservative, low-skilled player with a limited skillset over the more highly-skilled, younger, productive player that has more potential and upside. Of course, that would mean living with their occasional risks of commission - which he obviously isn't willing to do either.

[JR3]

+/- numbers do not lie. We are significantly better when he is playing.

+/- numbers don't lie.. but they don't tell the whole story. Some would say that is lieing.

[Big P]

You think he's the "key" to us winning a ring?? ummm...sorry...he's not

[ElNono]

+/- numbers do not lie. We are significantly better when he is playing.

What's a lie is to use +/- to gauge individual production. As somebody else said, Durant ended last season with a terrible +/-... Is he a bad player?

I guess PER numbers lie, or 3 point shooting % since coming back from his injury, or his career rebounding average, or our freaking team record.

I'll take Matt on a limited role coming from the bench. And that's about it.

[Obstructed_View]

I seem to recall him always shuffling his feet backwards with said opponent then drawing the foul while shooting over him. Bonner then turns to ref showing him arms extended straight up but then drops them to his sides, palms up mystified by the call.

That doesn't really disagree with what I said about him. He keeps the guy in front of him, even while giving up position. Actually, if Popovich didn't believe more in avoiding fouls than he does in playing defense, Bonner might be a useful defender in the NBA. Bonner hasn't had to look over his shoulder to the bench after a mistake lately, and I'm sure he's not going to screw that up by committing aggressive fouls.

[chazley]

Don't tell the whole story... incorrect. Adjusted plus/minus numbers are the biggest factor in determining how well a person is playing, as it takes into account the dirty work that players do to win games. His pick and pop with Tony where he goes to that 3-point line is one of the most effective plays we have. This is how Tony was so dominant last year: Bonner. Last year, Tony would annihilate bigs who would switch off Bonner on the pick-and-pop with Bonner, and Bonner was shooting near 50% on 3s cause he always had a PG switch onto him. This year is no different. You guys don't understand how dominant the adjusted plus/minus is for Matt Bonner. 11 points would put him among the top echelon of NBA players.

You might say, Matt Bonner is not a superstar therefore those numbers are garbage. Bottom line, Bonner is such an excellent fit for this system on the offensive end because his skills make everyone elses game SO much easier, and it covers up some of his defensive woes against quick bigs. He is a very underrated post defender and Spurs fans do not give him nearly enough credit.

I also might be the only one who thinks Blair needs to get less minutes. Blair should be our 4th big. His defense is so far below Antonio and Matt Bonners, and he's not very gifted offensively. Spurs fans have fallen in love with him, and his rebounding is unbelievably impressive, but it is the only thing that he does above average. Duncan just had 26 rebounds against Indiana, rebounding is not a need for the Spurs.

[ElNono]

That doesn't really disagree with what I said about him. He keeps the guy in front of him, even while giving up position. Actually, if Popovich didn't believe more in avoiding fouls than he does in playing defense, Bonner might be a useful defender in the NBA. Bonner hasn't had to look over his shoulder to the bench after a mistake lately, and I'm sure he's not going to screw that up by committing aggressive fouls.

You would think that at this point in his career he would know how to flop or take a charge...

[SenorSpur]

Don't tell the whole story... incorrect. Adjusted plus/minus numbers are the biggest factor in determining how well a person is playing, as it takes into account the dirty work that players do to win games. His pick and pop with Tony where he goes to that 3-point line is one of the most effective plays we have. This is how Tony was so dominant last year: Bonner. Last year, Tony would annihilate bigs who would switch off Bonner on the pick-and-pop with Bonner, and Bonner was shooting near 50% on 3s cause he always had a PG switch onto him. This year is no different. You guys don't understand how dominant the adjusted plus/minus is for Matt Bonner. 11 points would put him among the top echelon of NBA players.

You might say, Matt Bonner is not a superstar therefore those numbers are garbage. Bottom line, Bonner is such an excellent fit for this system on the offensive end because his skills make everyone elses game SO much easier, and it covers up some of his defensive woes against quick bigs. He is a very underrated post defender and Spurs fans do not give him nearly enough credit.

I also might be the only one who thinks Blair needs to get less minutes. Blair should be our 4th big. His defense is so far below Antonio and Matt Bonners, and he's not very gifted offensively. Spurs fans have fallen in love with him, and his rebounding is unbelievably impressive, but it is the only thing that he does above average. Duncan just had 26 rebounds against Indiana, rebounding is not a need for the Spurs.

You probably are. Right there, you just sullied your points and lost any credibility you may have had with your argument.

[Obstructed_View]

You would think that at this point in his career he would know how to flop or take a charge...

Or to deliver a hard foul. He's a tough kid. The only person in the building at an NBA game he's afraid of is the one with the power to sit him on the bench for six months.