An Open Letter for Everyone Defending Pop

[MrFundamental]

I was thinking the other day: how a parker hill bonner dice duncan would work ?

Depending on the team, I think Bonner/Dice would be too slow to guard the 3. Would be fun to see a modified triangle with that line up though.

[MrFundamental]

Fail. The gripe on starting Bonner is because Bonner's a jump shooting role player who has little athletic ability and can't block shots or rebound. Bonner, Duncan and three guards is not a "big" lineup. When you see Bonner at small foward next to Duncan and Mahinmi then we can discuss big vs. small lineups.

Since Dice has been blocking so many shots, right? Tell Ian to start performing in practice, maybe then he'll get some PT.

[Obstructed_View]

Since Dice has been blocking so many shots, right?

What does Antonio McDyess have to do with the conversation?

[Obstructed_View]

I was thinking the other day: how a parker hill bonner dice duncan would work ?

I'm not sure you can run a big guy at the three without shot blocking behind him. If you're going to dictate that matchup, you have to expect the opposing three to get to the paint on occasion. Having a 6'9" power forward backing up your 6'10" small forward might not cut it. Blair might be an option in the three spot simply because of what he adds with his rebounding and inside scoring.

[SilverNBlackCDN]

I am a fan that understands you cannot win the championship every damn year. I also understand that as suicidal everyone here is saying how awful we are that we are all of what 2-3 games behind Dallas? And 4 more losses than the second place team in the conference. I`m not sure if everyone has come to terms that the West is packed with talent and that there are 11 teams that you have to come out with your A game against every night. Yeah the Spurs are giving up some really ugly losses right now, but settle the down. As for Pop I want him and not some hack that has not coached in a year and could not make it on half a dozen other teams. Pop is a good coach, everyone makes mistakes, get over it.

And i`m sure i`m going to get someone talking about my post count but I have been coming here off and on for a few years I just never post and I did at one point with another account which I lost the login info for. Been bleeding Silver and Black since Strickland threw the blind pass out of bounds, when the Dream was beating the out of us, when Barkley dropped the winner from the top of the key....

[MrFundamental]

What does Antonio McDyess have to do with the conversation?

Considering he's started the most games at center this month, I figured you be worried about his lack of blocks and rebounding as well.

[MrFundamental]

I am a fan that understands you cannot win the championship every damn year. I also understand that as suicidal everyone here is saying how awful we are that we are all of what 2-3 games behind Dallas? And 4 more losses than the second place team in the conference. I`m not sure if everyone has come to terms that the West is packed with talent and that there are 11 teams that you have to come out with your A game against every night. Yeah the Spurs are giving up some really ugly losses right now, but settle the down. As for Pop I want him and not some hack that has not coached in a year and could not make it on half a dozen other teams. Pop is a good coach, everyone makes mistakes, get over it.

[Obstructed_View]

Considering he's started the most games at center this month, I figured you be worried about his lack of blocks and rebounding as well.

You said starting Bonner at center was a "big" lineup. You were wrong. And Dice has averaged nine rebounds a game this month, so I'm not worried about his rebounding at all. I'm worried why he's not starting though. Strange that you aren't.

[MrFundamental]

You said starting Bonner at center was a "big" lineup. You were wrong.

Bonner is a big, just because he shoots outside doesn't mean he isn't.

And Dice has averaged nine rebounds a game this month, so I'm not worried about his rebounding at all. I'm worried why he's not starting though. Strange that you aren't.

Dice isn't averaging 9 a game, he's a hair over 7. And he started against Denver, didn't play well, and lost his spot. He'll probably get it back (and should) with Bonner not playing well either.

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner is a big, just because he shoots outside doesn't mean he isn't.

And just because he starts doesn't mean he's a starter. He's not now, nor has he ever been, an NBA center. There's just not any way around that.

[ElNono]

Bonner is a big, just because he shoots outside doesn't mean he isn't.

At least on the offensive end, he doesn't play big either. He will rarely get you an offensive board, because he camps on the perimeter. He can't play hi-lo, since he can't pass to save his life. He's a one trick pony.

Dice isn't averaging 9 a game, he's a hair over 7. And he started against Denver, didn't play well, and lost his spot. He'll probably get it back (and should) with Bonner not playing well either.

That's 4 more rebounds average than Matt. And Dice played great against Denver. I don't know what game you were watching... his jumpers at the start of the second half is what brought the lead back to 14 after they made a run. That game was over by the end of the 3rd.

[Obstructed_View]

Dice isn't averaging 9 a game, he's a hair over 7. And he started against Denver, didn't play well, and lost his spot. He'll probably get it back (and should) with Bonner not playing well either.

Yeah I made a math mistake somehow. Actually he's a bit over 8 since he only got a few mintues against Indiana.

By the way, how exactly did he play poorly against Denver? He had ten points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists in 16 minutes.

[MrFundamental]

By the way, how exactly did he play poorly against Denver? He had ten points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists in 16 minutes.

He had 4 boards after averaging ~10 the previous 3 games, he didn't play poor, just not as well as the previous 3.

[MrFundamental]

And just because he starts doesn't mean he's a starter. He's not now, nor has he ever been, an NBA center. There's just not any way around that.

Great.

[MrFundamental]

At least on the offensive end, he doesn't play big either. He will rarely get you an offensive board, because he camps on the perimeter. He can't play hi-lo, since he can't pass to save his life. He's a one trick pony.

He doesn't need to get an offensive board.

That's 4 more rebounds average than Matt.

And still not double digits.

And Dice played great against Denver. I don't know what game you were watching... his jumpers at the start of the second half is what brought the lead back to 14 after they made a run. That game was over by the end of the 3rd.

10/4/3 is good, but as I said, not as well as is his previous 3 if we are worried about rebounding.

[ElNono]

He doesn't need to get an offensive board.

Sure he does. That's what bigs do, they rebound, among other things.

And still not double digits.

Still better than Bonner.

10/4/3 is good, but as I said, not as well as is his previous 3 if we are worried about rebounding.

That's why we look at career/season averages and not the sample size of 2 or 3 games. There, he's still better than Bonner, by about 3 rebounds per game.

[MrFundamental]

Sure he does. That's what bigs do, they rebound, among other things.

Sure, some do, and others don't need to. That's why there is TD.

Still better than Bonner.

Great, good for Dice, his mediocre rebounding is better then a slow shooting 6' 10" player!

That's why we look at career/season averages and not the sample size of 2 or 3 games. There, he's still better than Bonner, by about 3 rebounds per game.

Great, that's still mediocre for why we brought him in.


The fact of the matter is Bonner shouldn't be starting, but for how poor McDyess has been this year, neither should he. We need one of those two to step it up for the rest of the year and give Pops a reason to play them. McDyess has started to bring it together with a decent 2nd half of January and decent month of Feb, yet he's not the youngest on the team by any means. As long as Bonner plays a decent ~10-15 minutes a game I wouldn't mind bringing Dice off the bench to start Bonner a couple games a month and then shorten those starts closer to playoff time.

[ElNono]

Sure, some do, and others don't need to. That's why there is TD.

Good bigs do. TD can rarely do it alone anymore.

Great, good for Dice, his mediocre rebounding is better then a slow shooting 6' 10" player!

Exactly. That's why less mediocre should be starting over completely mediocre.

Great, that's still mediocre for why we brought him in.

What did we bring him in for, in your opinion?

[MrFundamental]

Good bigs do.

So what do you think the average rebounding for a "good big" should be? >5, >7, >10?

Exactly. That's why less mediocre should be starting over completely mediocre.

I agree, but at the same time, Bonner has shown streaks of less suckiness, I think his injury killed him.

What did we bring him in for, in your opinion?

We brought him in because we thought we could pull a 10/10 (or at least a solid 10/9) from him, while also providing solid D. What else would we have brought him in for?

[ElNono]

So what do you think the average rebounding for a "good big" should be? >5, >7, >10?

A great big will give you double digits. A good big will give you 7-10, an average big will give you 4-6, a guard will give you 0-3.

I agree, but at the same time, Bonner has shown streaks of less suckiness, I think his injury killed him.

He came off the bench before the injury, which is the role he played better at. And his career average is 3.5 rebounds/game... you know what you're going to get with Matt.

To take a rebounding edge off TDs shoulders, give us that mid-range jumper, and guard physical 4/5s. What else would we have brought him in for?

I would add spell minutes for TD so he could be fresh in the postseason. He averaged 30mpg last season. Obviously, it's not Antonio's decision to play less minutes.

[MrFundamental]

A great big will give you double digits. A good big will give you 7-10, an average big will give you 4-6, a guard will give you 0-3.

It's a good thing Bonner is average ~4 then, huh?

He came off the bench before the injury, which is the role he played better at. And his career average is 3.5 rebounds/game... you know what you're going to get with Matt.

Great, he sucks at rebounding, are we going to start setting up Dice behind the 3 pt line?

I would add spell minutes for TD so he could be fresh in the postseason. He averaged 30mpg last season. Obviously, it's not Antonio's decision to play less minutes.

That too, but that comes at playing at a consistently high level, which it seems like he's starting to turn the corner on.

[ElNono]

It's a good thing Bonner is average ~4 then, huh?

He's between average and mediocre. You shouldn't expect anything more than that from Bonner. And no, if you pretend to play defense consistently, it's not a good thing. As bad as both Dice and Blair have been, they still manage to grab almost twice as many rebounds in the same time.

Great, he sucks at rebounding, are we going to start setting up Dice behind the 3 pt line?

No, we're not. You just said we brought him here to take his long jumper. He has. He actually has shot over 50% for the season. Duncan played just fine when Bonner was injured, which pretty much dispels the myth that he needs a 3 point shooting big with him.

That too, but that comes at playing at a consistently high level, which it seems like he's starting to turn the corner on.

We haven't played at a high level with any lineup. But within that mess, he has played better than any other alternative, including Bonner and including small ball.

[MrFundamental]

He's between average and mediocre. You shouldn't expect anything more than that from Bonner. And no, if you pretend to play defense consistently, it's not a good thing. As bad as both Dice and Blair have been, they still manage to grab almost twice as many rebounds in the same time.

Good, and they don't shoot 3s. So since they are grabbing so many boards, tell me again why Bonner has to?

We haven't played at a high level with any lineup. But within that mess, he has played better than any other alternative, including Bonner and including small ball.

Up until recently, no he hasn't.

[ElNono]

Good, and they don't shoot 3s. So since they are grabbing so many boards, tell me again why Bonner has to?

I'm not going to explain the game of basketball to you, Mr Fundamental.
If you don't know why bigs primary responsibility is to rebound, then you need a lot of reading to do.

Up until recently, no he hasn't.

Define recently? Matt Bonner has either been unavailable or has sucked since mid-December...

[Chomag]

Good, and they don't shoot 3s. So since they are grabbing so many boards, tell me again why Bonner has to?

Sorry, but this analogy fails on so many levels. When the game of basketball was invented there was a reason why positions were made unless your playing a game of street-ball of course. Different positions have different tasks to make the whole machine run.

Here I'll help with a refresher:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_t..._in_basketball
Basketball Positions


Typically, there are five (5) main positions: two guards, two forwards, and a center. By rule, there is nothing that any one of these positions can do that the others cannot. But they all have traditional "roles" which they usually adhere to. They are listed below.
However, note that many basketball coaches tend to simplify their offense by starting five players who are either wings or posts. Posts play around the basket, and usually get the ball when they're already in a position to score. Wings are ball-handlers with a better outside shooting ability, usually, or at least have the skill to take their defender off the dribble and get to the basket for a closer shot.

Point Guard

• Generally the shortest and fastest players in the team. They are often the best at dribbling and therefore they are often called upon to bring the ball up the court on offense while the rest of the players get into their positions. They are often the leader on the floor, calling out plays, and controlling the tempo of the game. They have the ball in their hands the most out of any position.

• Point Guards are usually the shortest players. They have excellent dribbling and usually play point and on the wings. Should be a good passer and a very good dribbler. Able to use both hands evenly. Cannot be selfish. Sets up the offense.

• They aren't always the smallest- Note, Michael Jordan was a guard and he was 6 feet 6 inches tall and he played the point guard position sometimes

• Point guards are usually the ones that handle the ball. They bring it up and down the court and call the plays. They are essentially the quarterback of basketball.

• There are two distinctly different point guards: those who are score-first, pass-second and those who are pass-first and score-second. Allen Iverson is the score-first point guard, while Steve Nash is the pass-first point guard.

• Examples of a point guard: Allen Iverson, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Mike Bibby

Shooting Guard

• Usually taller than the point guard. Often these players are the best shooters from longer distances. They are also expected to be very fast and need to be able to dribble well.

• The back-up ball handler, usually better shooters (hence the name).

• The job of the shooting guard is to get open and find a shot or find another open player to keep the ball moving.

• Usually one of three types of shooting guards: The cutter and slasher, who gets dunks and layups for most of the points; The scorer, who can score in so many ways, often takes tough and contested shots; and the shooter, who love to hit jump shots. Examples of each: Kobe is a scorer, Ronnie Brewer is a slasher, and J.J. Re is the shooter.

• Example of a shooting guard: Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Tracy McGrady, J.J. Re

Small Forward

• Vary in mold. Taller than shooting guards but not as big as power forwards, these players are often very versatile, and can either shoot well from long range or get near the basket and get rebounds, etc.

• Forwards are some of smallest players on the team. Usually plays around the wing or corner and usually drives along the baseline. Should be a solid rebounder. A good runner. A hard driver and a good passer.

• Very much like shooting guard, usually starts lower on court.

• Example of a small forward: LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Larry Bird

Power Forward

• The next biggest player. They traditionally do not stray out and shoot long shots but play near the painted area and by the basket, trying for short-range shots and layups. Good power forwards are also very good at rebounding. Recently in the NBA many power forwards have emerged and can shoot three pointers very well.

• Forwards fight under the net to get open for an easy lay up. They are post players and are usually taller than the guards.

• Usually larger players (hence the name); starts low with small forward.

• Example of a power forward: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett

Center (Centre)

• Usually the tallest and slowest players on the team. Their primary jobs are to get rebounds and score points when close the basket. They are rarely expected to dribble the ball much nor shoot from more than 15 feet away. Some centers are very dominant at scoring from in close while many others only score a handful of points per game. The best players at blocking shots on defense are often centers.

• The center stays around the paint, which is the colored part of the floor around the basket. Should be a solid rebounder and a good inside shooter.

• The center has to be able to move around and help move the ball and occasionally shoot. For the most part they are very helpful on defense.

• The center is the biggest or strongest player, and is usually interchangeable with power forward.

• Example of a center: Shaquille O'Neal.

• Player positions can also be referred to by numbers: the point guard(pg) is the 1, the shooting guard(sg) is the 2 guard, the small forward(sf) is the 3, the power forward(pf)is the 4 and the center(c) is the 5.