Buffett's partner says the US is doomed

[EVAY]

Warren Buffett's business partner wrote an article included in the Slate.com claiming that the economy is 'all over' at http:www.slate.com/id/2245328/pagenum/all/#2.

Like many reputable, non-partisan economists, he claims that the primary responsibility for the crash is at the feet of the gamblers of Wall Street, rather than either political party or agency or congressman.

[EVAY]

Warren Buffett's business partner wrote an article included in the Slate.com claiming that the economy is 'all over' at http:www.slate.com/id/2245328/pagenum/all/#2.

Like many reputable, non-partisan economists, he claims that the primary responsibility for the crash is at the feet of the gamblers of Wall Street, rather than either political party or agency or congressman.

It seems to me that the guy is right that derivatives and similar ultra-complex financial securities are so far removed from their underlying asset base that there is no possibility of accurately assessing the real risk, and that trading in them is nothing more than a casino crap game, which, ultimately, leads to ruin. This position, however, gives no aid or comfort to either political party in their infantile insistence on making each other the scapegoat for something that hardly anyone understands, much less the rank and file congressional representative of either party.

Now, however, the banking and financial industries are effectively extorting the American public by saying 'pay me directly or pay me through increased costs', and by the way, 'I can pay for a lot more advertising in the upcoming campaign than any of you schmucks', so don't even THINK about telling me what I can't do.' Thus, the politicians say 'whatever you want, sir'.

And it is 'All Over' for us.

[Winehole23]

It seems to me that the guy is right that derivatives and similar ultra-complex financial securities are so far removed from their underlying asset base that there is no possibility of accurately assessing the real risk, and that trading in them is nothing more than a casino crap game...

It's worse than that, EVAY. Goldman actively recommended MBSs to its clients, then took short positions.

Now, however, the banking and financial industries are effectively extorting the American public by saying 'pay me directly or pay me through increased costs', and by the way, 'I can pay for a lot more advertising in the upcoming campaign than any of you schmucks', so don't even THINK about telling me what I can't do.' Thus, the politicians say 'whatever you want, sir'.

And it is 'All Over' for us.

I never thought I would say this, but I liked it much better when big finance was holding the gun to its own head.

[SnakeBoy]

Like many reputable, non-partisan economists, he claims that the primary responsibility for the crash is at the feet of the gamblers of Wall Street, rather than either political party or agency or congressman.

The fact that "derivatives and similar ultra-complex financial securities are so far removed from their underlying asset base that there is no possibility of accurately assessing the real risk, and that trading in them is nothing more than a casino crap game, which, ultimately, leads to ruin." is evidence that political parties & politicians are responsible. The role of our government should be to insure that we have free and FAIR markets. They have failed.

You should watch this frontline episode
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

[EVAY]

It's worse than that, EVAY. Goldman actively recommended MBSs to its clients, then took short positions.

I never thought I would say this, but I liked it much better when big finance was holding the gun to its own head.

Yeah, Goldman comes off repeatedly as a bunch of crooks who sound like they belong in a movie about the 'oligarchists ruling the world'. The revolving door between Goldman and the Administrations of both parties makes this conclusion pretty hard to deny. But it is so much easier to say 'oh, those damn repug or demonrats', when in fact none of them know any more than we do, and likely a lot less.

[boutons_deux]

But Bowel Movement Conservatives keep repeating, for 35+ years, that the problem is government, regulations, OSHA, EPA, IRS, etc, and, ad nauseam, taxes. Kill government and taxes, and the world would be perfect.

The whole point of the conservative scam is to enrich themselves (more) behind the "hate government" smokescreen which very effectively dupes the sheeple, rabble, teabaggers, "patriots", into joining their bull choir and contributing to the echo chamber of fantasies.

The Wall St casino and bailout are the crowning achievements of conservatives' deregulatory lies.

Conservative "philosophy" is 100% wrong, but the wealthy conservatives escape, while 10s of millions finance their escape.

[RandomGuy]

The fact that "derivatives and similar ultra-complex financial securities are so far removed from their underlying asset base that there is no possibility of accurately assessing the real risk, and that trading in them is nothing more than a casino crap game, which, ultimately, leads to ruin." is evidence that political parties & politicians are responsible. The role of our government should be to insure that we have free and FAIR markets. They have failed.

You should watch this frontline episode
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

You can't enforce fairness without regulation. oops.

[boutons_deux]

"The role of our government should be to insure that we have free and FAIR markets"

So govt and its regulations are bad, and not enforcing regulations (effectively no regulation) is bad. You ers never make an ounce of sense.

[boutons_deux]

You right wingers are deliriously content with "starve the beast" and "drown govt in a bathtub", until the corps and capitalists you over, then you go whining about .... no government regulation.

[Winehole23]

Instead of painting everyone who might disagree with a broad brush, why not address particular posters?

That's one thing I've never understood about you. You're content ignore particular posters and address youself to composite "right-wingers". As if right wingers all resembled each other, or shared a single philosophy. They don't and they don't.

[coyotes_geek]

boutons in this thread, whining about those opposed to government regulation.

boutons in this thread, whining about government regulation.

[SnakeBoy]

You can't enforce fairness without regulation. oops.

I've stated before on this forum that I believe in free and fair markets not free for all markets. I'm not an "all regulations are bad" person. Volcker Rule doesn't sound all that bad to me.

[SnakeBoy]

Being opposed to overregulation does not automatically make one in favor of no regulation at all. Don't confuse me with the fake libertarians on this forum.

[EVAY]

The fact is that right now, the banks and other financial ins utions are flooding the congress with so much money decrying the 'right' regulation
(let's just get past the some vs. no regulation argument for the time being, okay?) that NOTHING at all is getting done.

Pretty much everybody acknowledges that capital markets are NOT ENTIRELY efficient. Moreover, the goal of capital markets is not the same as the goal of a capitalist government. That is, capital markets exist to facilitate the expansion of capital wealth through trading in assets. Capitalist governments exist for the well-being of their citizens. In a global market like today's, those goals can be divergent because the increase in weath from trading assets may be obtained at the expense of a particular county's economic well-being. Therefore, some regulation of said markets is not only tolerable but desirable. The questions are 'what kind of regulation and how much regulation?

That's where things get absurd.

The financial ins utions that caused the current crisis did so in part by obfuscating the risk associated with the assets they were selling to the public. Either they didn't understand the risks involved in the assets themselves, or they didn't care. In either event, those same ins utions cannot now reasonably expect to form the re-regulation of the trading or the assets themselves. BUT THEY DO!!!!!

Moreover, they have the financial clout to overpower the government that is trying to re-regulate them. That is why there is no hope.

I don't know what you guys are gonna do with your earnings in the future, but I have to tell you now that putting them in the hands of folks who have proven they are too dumb or too criminal to be good stewards of them is not a healthy long-range financial plan.

[Winehole23]

The whole idea that you hand your nut over completely to a financial pro or a company plan without doing your own due diligence is fairly new, but by now I expect it is pretty common. We aren't as sensible about money as we were even 30 years ago.

The proliferation of financial "expertise" seems to have made the problem worse, not better.

[Winehole23]

But Bowel Movement Conservatives keep repeating, for 35+ years, that the problem is government, regulations, OSHA, EPA, IRS, etc, and, ad nauseam, taxes. Kill government and taxes, and the world would be perfect.

Not every winger is an anarcho-capitalist. Some are cons utionalists. US cons utionalists believe in a political state with a republican form. Preserving the cons ution necessarily involves preserving features of that government.

Conservatives who conserve the cons ution also conserve the political state that enforces it's promises. Libertarians, not so much, but some of them like the cons ution too, and the rudimentary government it implies.

The whole point of the conservative scam is to enrich themselves (more) behind the "hate government" smokescreen which very effectively dupes the sheeple, rabble, teabaggers, "patriots", into joining their bull choir and contributing to the echo chamber of fantasies.

Both sides do that, each in its own peculiar way.

The Wall St casino and bailout are the crowning achievements of conservatives' deregulatory lies.

Robert Rubin and Larry Summers deserve as much credit as anyone else IMO.

Conservative "philosophy" is 100% wrong, but the wealthy conservatives escape, while 10s of millions finance their escape.

Conservatives have a monopoly neither on wealth, nor avariciousness, nor guile, nor on any escape from the onerousness of the world the rest of us inhabit.

[RandomGuy]

The whole idea that you hand your nut over completely to a financial pro or a company plan without doing your own due diligence is fairly new, but by now I expect it is pretty common. We aren't as sensible about money as we were even 30 years ago.

The proliferation of financial "expertise" seems to have made the problem worse, not better.

I think an "index fund" is probably about the best way to go.

That and/or saving up enough dough to buy a share of berkshire hathaway.

[angrydude]

"The role of our government should be to insure that we have free and FAIR markets"

So govt and its regulations are bad, and not enforcing regulations (effectively no regulation) is bad. You ers never make an ounce of sense.

you're a god damn idiot. I know you don't know that but you are.

So let me spell it out for you

smaller government = less public spending = more public savings = less need to borrow money = less need for FED to lower interest rates to maintain illusion of prosperity = less money for wall street to play with = fewer banking crisis

[angrydude]

neither side of the political spectrum actually wants to cut anything though. Republicans pretend they do but when they get elected they just cut taxes and deficit spend. Cutting taxes may affect your pocketbook but it means nothing to the economy as a whole as its just moving money around inside a system.

This has been building for 30 years and none of it really became apparent until it all hit the fan last year. The US is toast because the dollar is going to be toast. And the dollar is going to be toast because there are too many debts that will remain unpaid. It only looks decent right now because the rest of the world is also having problems so they instinctively run to the dollar. But once they recover (when they figure out to quite losing money on us), we'll be the ones left holding the bag. The single greatest thing America has going for it right now is its military.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You right wingers are deliriously content with "starve the beast" and "drown govt in a bathtub", until the corps and capitalists you over, then you go whining about .... no government regulation.

LOL. You've posted on both sides of this. What kind of an idiot argues with himself?