The Rich Are Different From You and Me: They Pay 17%

[RandomGuy]

You assume the "system" is what gave the person the ability to succeed.

The founding do ent of this Nation is VERY clear as where the credit lies, and thus, by your reasoning, where moral obligation to payback should be directed.

I do not quite assume that it is entirely the system that "gave the person the ability to succeed."

Success is a mix of luck and ability, but no one is an island in and of themselves.

When you form contracts, you benefit from a system of laws and enforcement of those laws.

When you hire people, you benefit from the education they received.

When you benefit from not having organized crime extort 90% of your profits, you have benefited.

We benefit in a myriad of ways from all manner of public goods.

[101A]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but either way:
Flat taxes are regressive. They have the dual problems of castrating a government's ability to create non-mandatory incentives while simultaneously punishing the poor as a flat tax more drastically impacts take home income per relative need. $10,000 on 10% tax is 1000 that might otherwise go to food, for example...

A model I would support would include a significant personal deduction; ideally it would be the only deduction.

[101A]

I do not quite assume that it is entirely the system that "gave the person the ability to succeed."

Success is a mix of luck and ability, but no one is an island in and of themselves.

When you form contracts, you benefit from a system of laws and enforcement of those laws.

When you hire people, you benefit from the education they received.

When you benefit from not having organized crime extort 90% of your profits, you have benefited.

We benefit in a myriad of ways from all manner of public goods.

True, but each of those successes, again, may stem from "society"; but that does not mean it stems from govt. To that end, giving to the govt. != giving BACK to society.

[coyotes_geek]

A model I would support would include a significant personal deduction; ideally it would be the only deduction.

Here's the model I like.

(total income - poverty level) x flat tax rate = tax owed

[Wild Cobra]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but either way:
Flat taxes are regressive. They have the dual problems of castrating a government's ability to create non-mandatory incentives while simultaneously punishing the poor as a flat tax more drastically impacts take home income per relative need. $10,000 on 10% tax is 1000 that might otherwise go to food, for example...

Since when should the government pick winners and losers?

Everyone who has income should pay taxes. Every voter should have a financial stake that their vote effects. If we don't do such a thing, then I'm all for ins uting a "poll tax."

[Rogue]

the poor always aren't the targets for leviers while the rich often possess more or less political clout that helps them avoid it. That's why middle class has to be the all-time preys of predators.

[Wild Cobra]

the poor always aren't the targets for leviers while the rich often possess more or less political clout that helps them avoid it. That's why middle class has to be the all-time preys of predators.

Well, I haven't really figured out what range to place, but as starters, how about this. Nobody should pay more than 20% taxes and nobody should pay less than 10%?

[Winehole23]

Well, I haven't really figured out what range to place, but as starters, how about this. Nobody should pay more than 20% taxes and nobody should pay less than 10%?

You can't have full spectrum dominance and welfare on that rent, WC.

[Winehole23]

Since when should the government pick winners and losers?

You think it doesn't already?

[Winehole23]

o TARP?

[Darrin]

This is sickening. We are one country and greed in today's climate is nothing short of treason. We need tax revenue from these people--they can do the most good for the nation. I cannot believe that these tax loop-holes allow them to do everything we accuse illegal immigrants of doing--coming here, taking advantage of the system, and not giving a damn about their county.

[101A]

This is sickening. We are one country and greed in today's climate is nothing short of treason. We need tax revenue from these people--they can do the most good for the nation. I cannot believe that these tax loop-holes allow them to do everything we accuse illegal immigrants of doing--coming here, taking advantage of the system, and not giving a damn about their county.

If I deduct my mortgage interest should I be shot?

WTF are you talking about?

These people are NOT breaking the law - they are getting every last benefit the tax code has to offer; most of which would be exploited by EACH and every one of us simply by loading the requisite data into TurboTax Premier edition. They put the money in places YOUR government is encouraging them to do so by writing the tax code the way they do.

Also, I just went back and re-read the OP; the "comparison" group to these high earners is "People with income in the low six figures" - ostensibly those of us who pay the very highest of gross income in taxes - and EXACTLY those who benefit the most from the Bush tax cuts, and stand to lose (pay) the most when they expire this year. Didn't know you had so much concern for upper-middle-classers.

Also, the OP cherry-picks its data; takes income from the rich from before the bubble; while citing the travails of the post-crash meltdown. We've now gone three pages on an emotionally written red-meat piece.

[RandomGuy]

Here's the model I like.

(total income - poverty level) x flat tax rate = tax owed

Define "income".












(welcome to the swampy, murky marsh of tax reform, be sure to address whether capital gains meet this definition, and remember, the instant you define it, there will be some high dollar accountants looking for loopholes)

[angrydude]

Define "income".












(welcome to the swampy, murky marsh of tax reform, be sure to address whether capital gains meet this definition, and remember, the instant you define it, there will be some high dollar accountants looking for loopholes)

/cosigned

[coyotes_geek]

Define "income".












(welcome to the swampy, murky marsh of tax reform, be sure to address whether capital gains meet this definition, and remember, the instant you define it, there will be some high dollar accountants looking for loopholes)

My definition of income would be wages, tips, dividends, capital gains and interest. Not being an accountant though, I'm sure one could add a whole laundry list of things that are currently or could be considered to be income which would cloud the definition considerably. So, point taken. I think that point also makes a perfect illustration of why the tax code should be simplified, so that one doesn't have to be an accountant to understand it. To what degree that goal is achievable, I will have to defer to those who know more about the subject than I.

[TeyshaBlue]

Define "income".



(welcome to the swampy, murky marsh of tax reform, be sure to address whether capital gains meet this definition, and remember, the instant you define it, there will be some high dollar accountants looking for loopholes)

[DUNCECAP] Ok. Can't income simply be...ummm...income? [/DUNCECAP]

[Wild Cobra]

Here's the model I like.

(total income - poverty level) x flat tax rate = tax owed

If we want a simple method, I can go with that idea. Back in 1993, it was calculated that taxes would sustain this nation at (income - $30,000) x 17%. I personally thought the $30,000 was to much of a standard deduction, but in theory, this panned out.

Makes sense to me that 17% would be the right number for everyone to pay if the rich only pay that much. Afterall, they make up the majority of the tax revenues.