48MoH: The Root of All Defensive Evil

[all_heart]

It all translate to athleticism, or the lack there of on the roster. It's about knowing where to be and having the ability to get there. Spurs got 2 problems, lacking a legit athletic big and a athletic wing. And of course playing small ball doesn't help.

[dbestpro]

It all translate to athleticism, or the lack there of on the roster.

I feel we don't really know that. Athleticism is an issue for transition D, and we for the most part have done okay on transition D. We really do not know what our perimeter D is capable of until we fix the interior D. When we play conventional ball, most of the time we look pretty good and the players are in rhythm. When we go small the D falls apart and we never seem to recover.

There are times for small ball but it has to be done judiciously and intelligently, not just because its at a particular time of the quarter and when it is apparent the opposing team is winning the small ball battle we need to go quickly back to conventional. Small ball is left in tact for way too long of portions of the game.

[Old School 44]

We do not have the personnel (or are not playing them) to funnel players to the baseline for defensive help. We are wearing Tim out on the defensive end as he tries to cover the paint by himself. We need some length and athletism inside to pair with Tim. I don't know how many times I've seen our perimeter defenders chase guys off the three point line only to be blown by with little or no help underneath.

My starting front line would be Tim, Ian and McDyess. The way things are going, I'd even try Tim, Ian and Blair. Active bodies to alter shots and hit the boards. If they (Ian and Blair) foul out, so be it. Ian just standing in the paint with arms raised, will improve our interior D.

[Agloco]

If you do not foul, it doesn't automatically mean the other team doesn't score in that possession. Furthermore, 4 points is worst case scenario. Because they get foul it doesn't mean they're going to make the free throws.

Again, and I think I'm going to have to look this up myself, I seriously doubt that the difference in points allowed between the 2006-2007 season and this season is a mere 4 points.

You're not considering the other side of the equation either. The Spurs are slightly faster on the offensive end this year. You need to add that on top of whatever differentials you're analyzing.

2007 Points Allowed 90.2
2010 Points allowed 96.2

The difference is 6. Pace might account for the other 2 points.

[Ibanezsr]

Comparing the defense of the past compared to now is pointless. Rules were different in the past and perimeter players could get away with a lot more. Now... not so much... Which stresses the fact that now more than ever you need bigs to protect the rim...

[ElNono]

You're not considering the other side of the equation either. The Spurs are slightly faster on the offensive end this year. You need to add that on top of whatever differentials you're analyzing.

2007 Points Allowed 90.2
2010 Points allowed 96.2

The difference is 6. Pace might account for the other 2 points.

I thought we were giving up close to a 100 this season... But thanks for looking it up!

[hommeaetage]

Teams don't kill the Spurs in the paint with Timmy there to defend, they kill the Spurs in the paint by running a pick on Timmy and then going to the rim where there's nobody taller than 6'8" to stop them.

This

[SpurNation]

Keep fouling then. At least you can hope the other team misses their FT's instead of just giving them uncontested shots. This team has an assortment of DNP's it can use.

At least that's the strategy I would use if ahead and close to the end of the game with about 5 minutes left. It would also give our aged veterans a chance to catch their breath.

Meh!

[dbestpro]

There is some merit to comitting more fouls. Detroit took a bunch of average players and fouled on every play. The officials were not going to call every foul so it allowed Detroit to get away with being physical and creating an iden y as a defensive team.

[SpurNation]

Spurs defense. I'm sure that age (and to some extent talent) has some to do with this team's lack of defensive effectiveness.

But looking at some of the games this year...I've also noticed teams taking advantage by exploiting some of the holes this system has even if the team had a Bowen in his prime.

Back door cuts and weak side screens have always been an achilies heel. Granted others in the past were able to push (direct) their opponent to a certain spot where weak side help could reak havoc. But teams are starting to be able (and not by sure will or one on one) pass the ball to effective spots against this defense.

It's almost as if once a team can pass to the blind side of this defense...there isn't any body (due to positioning) that is close enough to defend an easy shot. They've either over committed or too far away to effectively close out.

Again...not knowing the nuances of the entire system and who's to blame in those situations...I've also seen some decent defense by this team only to be exploited by the nature of the defense itself.

[ElNono]

Defense is A LOT easier if you can stay in front of your guy.
To stay in front of you guys you need one of:
A) Lateral quickness
B) Great footwork

Bowen had both, and towards the end of his career he was losing A, which is normal as players age and lose mobility.
But the fact he had outstanding footwork and stayed in shape is what kept him in the game for so long doing what he did so well.
In fact, he was so good, that he would always be moved to guard whoever player was hot at the time.

These days, Hill is probably the only player that has A, but he's still lacking on B. Manu is probably the best we have on B, but due to his age, he's lacking on A.
And neither is really as good or effective as Bruce.

Now, as far as holes in the system, we always had them. They're just a lot easier to exploit if you have holes everywhere. When Bruce was around, we reduced the game basically to a 4 on 4, with Bowen and whoever was the hot/best player of the other team being the men out. At that point, it's a lot easier to help when you already know that their best player is taken care of.

Obviously, there are other factors. Like Tim's decline and overall suckitude of whoever plays next to him.

[portnoy1]

In 2005/07 we had the big3 and 6 role players that could do at least 2 or more things very well. We also had more shotblockers then instead of now. Look at the difference!!

2004-05
Bowen - Perimeter D / 3 pt shooting
Mohammed - Rebounding / shot blocking / Post and help D
Horry - Post and Help D / Shotblocking / 3pt shooting / Passing
Barry - 3pt shooting / Passing
Udrih - 3pt shooting / Passing
Nesterovic - Rebounding / Shot blocking / Post and help D
2006-07
Bowen - Perimeter D / 3pt shooting
Oberto - Rebounding / Post and help D / Passing
Horry - Post and help D / Shotblocking / 3pt shooting / Passing
Barry - 3pt shooting / Passing
Elson - Rebounding / shot blocking
Finley - Shooting
2009-10
Hill - Perimeter D / Scoring
Bogans - Perimeter D
Bonner - 3pt shooting
RJ - Scoring
Dice - Shooting / Rebounding
Blair - Rebounding / Low post Scoring
The 6 role players we have surrounding the big3 now are inconsistent and one-dimensional in there strengths. We also have no shotblockers next to Tim (05 - Nazr , Rasho , Horry 07 - Elson, Horry ).

[SpurNation]

Good point El Nono using the A and B analogy. But I've also seen teams exploit this defense more and more with passing and placement of their offensive personel against this defense.

What about the games where the opponent's 4th/5th option and/or even bench player racks up easy shots? From what I've seen when that happens...It's mainly been due to the oposing coach breaking down our defensive scheme more so than the lack of our player's ability to defend.

Again...our players may be out of position due to a bad decision they made on the court. But many times it's as if they are a half court away when trying to close out or defend against that extra pass. And many times that extra pass is made to a point where the team is at it's weakest to defend due to the players going to where they are supposed to go in their defensive rotations.

Surely one can't expect even youth and athleticism to defend against that when it's happening so fast?

[Obstructed_View]

In 2005/07 we had the big3 and 6 role players that could do at least 2 or more things very well. We also had more shotblockers then instead of now. Look at the difference!!

2004-05
Bowen - Perimeter D / 3 pt shooting
Mohammed - Rebounding / shot blocking / Post and help D
Horry - Post and Help D / Shotblocking / 3pt shooting / Passing
Barry - 3pt shooting / Passing
Udrih - 3pt shooting / Passing
Nesterovic - Rebounding / Shot blocking / Post and help D
2006-07
Bowen - Perimeter D / 3pt shooting
Oberto - Rebounding / Post and help D / Passing
Horry - Post and help D / Shotblocking / 3pt shooting / Passing
Barry - 3pt shooting / Passing
Elson - Rebounding / shot blocking
Finley - Shooting
2009-10
Hill - Perimeter D / Scoring
Bogans - Perimeter D
Bonner - 3pt shooting
RJ - Scoring
Dice - Shooting / Rebounding
Blair - Rebounding / Low post Scoring
The 6 role players we have surrounding the big3 now are inconsistent and one-dimensional in there strengths. We also have no shotblockers next to Tim (05 - Nazr , Rasho , Horry 07 - Elson, Horry ).

Don't forget, in the 2006 regular season, Neterovic and Mohammed were your starting centers and helped the Spurs win 63 games with relative ease. When those two were pulled in the playoffs, the Spurs began to give up points in the paint at an alarming rate and were bounced from the playoffs pretty quick.

[wildbill2u]

There was a time when you could visibly see the Spurs rachet up their defensive focus and intensity in the fourth quarter that stimulated extra effort. There was more physicality and more/faster lateral movement by individual defenders and the team worked together to cover each other.

I've only seen that focus and intensity--with all the physical results of extra effort that entails a few times this year.

[phxspurfan]

So you're saying the problem is small ball.