If the U.S.A. gets invaded, do you think we will be able to defend ourselves?

[EmptyMan]

If you want distance you don't want an AR or an AK. Get a good bolt rifle with good optics. I've got rifles I could kill you with before you got within 1/4 mile of me with your AR.

BTW, the US military went with the .223 platform in Vietnam mainly because the pussy draftees were scared of the .30 caliber rounds that had been standard before Nam.

You can customize an AR to be long-range. Not everyone uses them with banana clips and ski masks braaaaaah.

[CosmicCowboy]

Explain? What does being an idiot have to do with owning an AR?

To the OP if you want real info on the AR platform & dont want to liten to uninformed people, try ar15.com.

You dont have to buy a bolt rifle to get a 308...plenty of .308's available in the AR platform.

Lots of people are getting into the AR platfrom for hunting, home defense, target practice & 3 gun compe ions plus its highly customizable to your individual needs & situations

The people here in the US that dont want you to have the "evil black rifle"
are the people you have to worry about. Without that rifle or the Springfield M1 & a few others, there would be no FREE AMERICA.

Dude, I'm hardly uninformed. I've owned and shot AR's AK's and SKS's both semi and select fire plus dozens of other guns. The fact is, this is a guy that wants to buy an AR because it looks cool. I made a lot of pocket change back in the 90's building up AR's with new aftermarket lowers and surplus parts and selling them to goobers like the OP.

Yes, you can get AR's in .308 and after spending a couple of thousand dollars you can almost get them to shoot as accurately as a good bolt action rifle that costs 1/4 the price.

If the AR is such a good long range rifle why is the military using Remington 700's as their go to unit sniper rifle?

[Big P]

Dude, I'm hardly uninformed. I've owned and shot AR's AK's and SKS's both semi and select fire plus dozens of other guns. The fact is, this is a guy that wants to buy an AR because it looks cool. I made a lot of pocket change back in the 90's building up AR's with new aftermarket lowers and surplus parts and selling them to goobers like the OP.

Yes, you can get AR's in .308 and after spending a couple of thousand dollars you can almost get them to shoot as accurately as a good bolt action rifle that costs 1/4 the price.

If the AR is such a good long range rifle why is the military using Remington 700's as their go to unit sniper rifle?

I did not see the OP say that he wanted an AR because of the way it looks...& you are proud that you were able to sell some home built AR's to "goobers" that usually requires a license..I take it you have your ffl or ClassIII?

You don't have to spend "a couple of thousand" to get an AR in .308..on the low end there is DPMS which you can get for about $1,000. Bushmaster just came out with a 308 that runs $1300

The military is using a variation of the Rem 700...the M40A3...pretty much everything is upgraded beyod your run of the mill 700...not to mention that the US is starting to provide AR's in .308. in Iraq & Afghanistan.

There is a lot of misinformation here.

[symple19]

So much fail in this thread.

this

[CosmicCowboy]

You don't have to spend "a couple of thousand" to get an AR in .308..on the low end there is DPMS which you can get for about $1,000. Bushmaster just came out with a 308 that runs $1300

Suggested retail on the bushmaster is $1825 and that's with a crap 6# single stage trigger and without a match barrel. Essentially a 2MOA rifle. Thats OK for an assault rifle but sucks if you are talking about really ACCURATE rifles.

[nkdlunch]

USA is already being invaded by Mexicans and other latin americans. Nothing they can do about it. Tried to build a wall but looks like that effort is failing.

I don't see why ppl are blasting the OP.

China is also invading USA with their money. in 10 years China will own every metropolitan area in the USA. USA won't be able to fart without China's approval.

[CosmicCowboy]

I did not see the OP say that he wanted an AR because of the way it looks...& you are proud that you were able to sell some home built AR's to "goobers" that usually requires a license..I take it you have your ffl or ClassIII?

You don't have to spend "a couple of thousand" to get an AR in .308..on the low end there is DPMS which you can get for about $1,000. Bushmaster just came out with a 308 that runs $1300

The military is using a variation of the Rem 700...the M40A3...pretty much everything is upgraded beyod your run of the mill 700...not to mention that the US is starting to provide AR's in .308. in Iraq & Afghanistan.

There is a lot of misinformation here.

[Big P]

Sorry for the links.

Here's the price on the .308 straight from Bushmaster.

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog-30...e-BD200200.asp

Heres a review from a gunshop owner.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=185862

Not sure where you are getting your info from, but that 2nd link to ar15.com I highly recommend. Their general discussion section is like the club on steroids.

[CosmicCowboy]

OK, first item...You don't need a FFL to build AR's...The only registered part of an AR is the lower receiver. You buy the lower from a FFL. You then assemble the rifle from the parts you want to use. After that, it works just like any other sale from one individual to another.

Already addressed the accuracy issue. Trying to make an AR platform into an "almost" 1/4MOA sniper rifle is technically possible but extremely impractical.

Glad the military is moving back to the .308 now that it is available in the AR platform. IMHO it's a much better round than the 5.56.

[Big P]

If you are going to build rifles for yourself without the intention of selling them, you are correct, you get the lower shipped from or thru a ffl, however, if you are buying lowers from ffl's & then building rifles for the purpose of selling them for a profit, that is illegal & the ATF is cracking down hard on people that do this stuff, ie. all the undercover ATF agents at the local gunshows.

You already addressed the accuracy issue? Did you look at the second link with the shooting review for this particular Bushmaster? Granted this is not a top of the line semi auto 308, nor is it a scientific test, but the accuracy in the review shows to be pretty damn good out of the box...the reviewer said that if match ammo & better glass, he could reach SUB MOA. It all depends on what you want to spend.

The military is not moving back to the .308 as the primary rifle round. They are starting to issue rifles to Squad Designated Marksman in .308(better to reach out & touch someone in the mountains in Afghanistan). Eventually there will be a 308 or two in each squad. The 5.56 is still the primary weapon caliber, althought they are looking at replacement for the current M855 ammo.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you are going to build rifles for yourself without the intention of selling them, you are correct, you get the lower shipped from or thru a ffl, however, if you are buying lowers from ffl's & then building rifles for the purpose of selling them for a profit, that is illegal & the ATF is cracking down hard on people that do this stuff, ie. all the undercover ATF agents at the local gunshows.

The ATF may be scaring people but as of now it is still legal for one individual to sell a rifle to another individual whether they made a profit or not. The lower receiver is still the only registered component on an AR.

You already addressed the accuracy issue? Did you look at the second link with the shooting review for this particular Bushmaster? Granted this is not a top of the line semi auto 308, nor is it a scientific test, but the accuracy in the review shows to be pretty damn good out of the box...the reviewer said that if match ammo & better glass, he could reach SUB MOA. It all depends on what you want to spend.

Sure, 1MOA is good for a short barreled semi-auto. No argument there.

Spend the same money on a bolt action however and you can get in the 1/4MOA range. THAT'S what I consider accurate.

The military is not moving back to the .308 as the primary rifle round. They are starting to issue rifles to Squad Designated Marksman in .308(better to reach out & touch someone in the mountains in Afghanistan). Eventually there will be a 308 or two in each squad. The 5.56 is still the primary weapon caliber, althought they are looking at replacement for the current M855 ammo.

Similar to the "unofficial" use of M1 Garrand's by some over the years instead of the issue AR's...

[Big P]

Yes, I said individual sales are legal, I can sell my gun to you face to face & make a profit, we dont even have to use an ffl, although it would be pretty stupid to sell a weapon to someone without transferring it to them thru an ffl.

Now if I want to go & buy 10 lowers, sure I can go do that, IF my intentions are not to sell them, they will be my 10 personal rifles...now if I go and buy 10 lowers & then build them out & start selling them out of my house, sorry thats illegal, you need a license to be a gun dealer.

So would you rather our soldiers have a bolt action rifle 308 or a 308 that can put 20 rounds accurately very qiuickly, just for what you say is a 1/4 moa...you make it sound like a AR in 308 couldn't hit the side of a barn...we are not talking sniper rifles here..the difference on moa between a bolt action or a semi auto 308 is minimal...moa or sub moa the bad guy is going down & I would rather have an extra 15 bullets in my mag ready to go rather than have to reload after 5 or so shots. There are some short barrel 308's out there, but alot are using 18 & 20 in.

Show me where our soldiers are still use or are issued Garrands.

Just curious where you were getting your pricing info from? You said $1,800 + thats alot more than the $1,300 or so that Bushmaster said it retails for. Not to mention that most of the time you are not going to pay msrp...my rifle listed at $1,800, I paid $1,380 with tax & transfer.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hey, I'm glad you are happy with your bushmaster and they are nice guns for the application they were designed for.

I never said I wanted our soldiers to use bolt action rifles. I'm not sure where you got that.

I'm not sure why we are even beating this dead horse.

You made this statement a couple of pages back...

You can customize an AR to be long-range. Not everyone uses them with banana clips and ski masks braaaaaah.

When I proved I knew what I was talking about and that by the very nature of their design they are not made for long range shooting (which by it's very definition is sub MOA accuracy) it then turned into well, they are KINDA accurate...uh huh. They are.

Lets give this a rest.

[Big P]

Sorry if you got upset or offended CC, I thought we were just having a normal discussion, it's just that there are a lot of ill informed people (not saying you are one of them), & the spreading of misinformation (not saying you did) about AR's gives people this horrble image of AR's, which in turn causes people to think they have the right to decide what IF any weapons another person can possess. We still live in America right? The Second Amendment and all?

[CosmicCowboy]

Sorry if you got upset or offended CC, I thought we were just having a normal discussion, it's just that there are a lot of ill informed people (not saying you are one of them), & the spreading of misinformation (not saying you did) about AR's gives people this horrble image of AR's, which in turn causes people to think they have the right to decide what IF any weapons another person can possess. We still live in America right? The Second Amendment and all?

Totally agree on all counts. AR's are fun to shoot and the ammo is still reasonably cheap to shoot. ( but unfortunately not like when I bought my first one and was getting 1600 round cases of FMJ for $80)

That was my go to gun for calling coyotes or headlighting/whacking hogs at night, but it stayed home when it was time to make 500 yard shots on prairie dogs.

[Big P]

I hear you... I wish I could get 1600 rounds for $80, I'm certain we will never see any prices like that ever again, if you buy in bulk, 1k of ammo with reloadable brass is gonna run anywhere for $300 to $500 depending on make & manufacturer...decent ammo is running anywhere from .33 to .50 a round..its depressing... I use my AR for coyote/hog hunting as well & it has served me well.

[MiamiHeat]

[symple19]

China is also invading USA with their money. in 10 years China will own every metropolitan area in the USA. USA won't be able to fart without China's approval.

Hmmm, just like Japan in the late 80s early 90s right?

[symple19]

sweet

[bus driver]

glad to hear your getting the AR15 aswell...

Im not to good with guns just yet, but I wanted to ask you.... what kind of optics are you getting?

whats good for LONG Distance, and whats good for Close Combat ?

cant really say...my brother has the chance to buy them for about 700 each, so i guess whatever they are selling. i never shot one so dont know much about them only that my brother could get them. i figure this is a good chance to get one. i have only fired hand guns, shotguns and a SKS.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

Interesting idea, it would probably cause a lot of national unity and pride, lets be honest

[Pero]

LMAO Spurs the next Roman empire... I guess it's fitting since the Roman empire collapsed after a period of greatness and the Spurs now seem to be on their way out too. And Rome had a crazy emperor, Pop might be crazy too.

[Sisk]

USA is already being invaded by Mexicans and other latin americans. Nothing they can do about it. Tried to build a wall but looks like that effort is failing.